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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Right Side of the News | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.4 |
quote: I'm for fiscal sanity, free trade, a strong defense, a foreign policy that opposes the world's bad players like Russia, and I think character counts. A lot. I oppose Trump because he has abandoned these core conservative values. The problem is, those aren't core conservative values. Your echo chamber columnist was incorrect, most actual Republicans would not have used those honeyed, vague, largely meaningless terms to describe conservativism. As you've shown, they are adaptable to just about any political view. Here's how an actual Republican would have described conservatism; The promotion of individual freedom, the importance of personal responsibility, the reduction of the powers of the federal government, and a maintenance of traditional, Judeo Christian morals. Between Reagan and Trump, 5 career politicians have sought the presidency, Bush 41, Bob Dole, Bush 43, John McCain, and Mitt Romney. All of their beliefs, fading further and further from actual conservatism from 41 to Romney, has made the Trump jolt back to actual conservatism so confusing for you. Here's a look at some actual conservatism from a little over 100 years ago;
quote: This goes along very well with Trump's words and actions of today.
If McCain were still alive the strain of Republicans holding to core conservative values would also still be alive, but it seems to have died with him. Almost all Republicans today are doing whatever it takes to survive (meaning to be reelected) in this age of Trump until it is over. It's as if an entire party and all its supporters have gone off the deep end all at the same time. Another thing that has you confused is how Republicans have had to adapt to largely different circumstances in the past 50 or 60 years, mainly because the Democrat party bears little resemblance of what it was in the past, even since the Reagan administration. Last year, there were re-runs of news reports from 50 years ago, that covered the MLK assassination. There was NO MENTON of the NRA in those reports, there was no climate-change terrorism in those days, there were no cries of healthcare for all in those days, no special-rights-for-gays movements, no demands to dismantle the electoral college, no frivolous articles of impeachment against a properly elected president. There were no Democrats anywhere near a position of power that would succeed in getting frivolous articles of impeachment through the House, then cry because the same president that they're trying so hard to destroy doesn't seek their advise, and risk their leaking of classified information, before he takes proper action in response to an attack on our foreign embassy.
Lindsey Graham is the poster child for this Trumpian abandonment of principle. He hasn't been shy about explaining his change of heart about Trump, who in 2015 he called a "race-baiting xenophobic religious bigot." He says he became Trump's strongest supporter because he wanted to make a difference. What he actually did was take an unprincipled path of least resistance to political power. Lindsey Graham now stands for the very things he found so objectionable in Trump just a few years ago. This is why history will know Lindsey Graham as a politician of flexible principles rather than as a statesman. I wonder if Graham realizes that. Lindsey Graham has always gone where the political winds blow him. He'd probably say that he listens to his constituents, and tries to adapt to their wishes as best he can. Plenty of politicians on both sides do that. I'm not really interested in a discussion on how right or how wrong that is.
But the question remains: If the Republican party no longer stands for core conservative principles, then what does it stand for? Hopefully your question is answered - you're welcome. If not, I'll answer any reasonable questions.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What? You need to be told the wall is a bad idea, right? That's what all your talking heads are telling YOU, against all reason, even against former Dem positions. We know a wall is good for America, and our talking heads agree with US.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Yes, that's exactly what people are asking you to do. Quote what they actually say, not what your right-wing sources claim they're saying.
Actual people saying actual things? You want me to quote all the Dem candidates pushing anticapitalist economic principles.... Faith writes:
You? Intimidated into silence? Did you actually say that? ... the rest of us intimidated into silence for fear of offending the powers that be."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Gosh you can't see the evidence in the totalitarian media that promote only the liberal/leftist party line? ... Nope. You need more than assertions and argument from incredulity Faith. Try FACTS. The media is corporatist, not partisan, it is owned by the 1%, and it goes where the news stories go that increase readership and promote corporatist agenda. That's why news about Bernie Sanders is suppressed and misrepresented, which is counter to your assertions. Curiously I see Faux Noise Nutwerk is even beginning to distance themselves from Trump ... is that a liberal organization now? What I see is evidence of reality, and of democratic processes in the constitution being brought to bear against the most corrupt amoral president in history. It has nothing to do with liberal vs conservative and everything to do with constitutional democracy vs corporatist oligarchy. Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.4
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Why are you guys so obsessed with opinionated columnists? Can't you form your own opinions based on the events in the news? That was a response to someone who is obsessed with opinionated conservative commentators, who often report news events that the mainstream news media omits. It's one of the many pot-calling-the-kettle-black issues that Trump haters have.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
No. I don't. I can figure out its good and bad points by myself. Why can't you? What? You need to be told the wall is a bad idea, right?"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Here's how an actual Republican would have described conservatism; The promotion of individual freedom, the importance of personal responsibility, the reduction of the powers of the federal government, and a maintenance of traditional, Judeo Christian morals. Yes.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
You want me to show that all that doesn't apply to the conservatives? What can I say? It's so obvious that the conservatives that have even a shred of power left to them are America-loving freedom lovers. That describes Trump and it describes his supporters. That's the most pathetic non-answer misinformation you've made yet. I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad. Trump treats immigrants the way Germany treated Jews -- caging them, separating their families, failing to provide medical attention etc -- that fascist. What is comparable done by liberals? Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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marc9000 writes:
I'm not a Trump hater. I think Trump is Baby with a gun. That isn't hate; it's reality. It's one of the many pot-calling-the-kettle-black issues that Trump haters have."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
There's no hope, RAZD, it's out there for you to see, but it's spun into oblivion and I don't know how to get you to see it. Maybe Marc can.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
More spin, ringo. I guess the truth is just too much for you. Yes you are a Trump hater. How you can pretend otherwise is mindboggling.
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.4 |
Germany was Fascist. Germany was a dictatorship. Nazism. Italy was Fascist. Conservatives often label today's Democrats as socialists, liberals, communist sympathizers, largely because that's what they are. Those are derogatory terms, and through the 70's and 80's Democrats had no derogatory terms with which to put down conservatives, the term "conservative" isn't, and never has been, a derogatory term. They searched and searched, and finally, taking advantage of the terms "right wing", and "leftist", which were used very differently in 1940's Europe, they found the term "fascist", and adopted that term for conservatives, as if it's the opposite of communism, which it isn't.
quote: Mussolini founds the Fascist party - HISTORY "launched a program of terrorism and intimidation" - does that sound like the climate-change hoax? If one takes into consideration the actual context of of "right wing" and "leftist" labels of that place and time, it becomes very obvious which party in the U.S. today is closest to fascism.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
quote: I don’t think that individual media owners influencing coverage is exactly what is meant. Even if your complaints amounted to anything more than your poor search skills. If you want a more worrying example consider the Right’s habit of labelling news they don’t like as Fake News and Trump’s characterisation of journalists as enemies of the people. There is definitely a desire for regimentation of the media there. (And if social media was so controlled by the Left why do they have such big problems with Rightists viciously harrassing people?)
quote: Hardly. If you want a better example consider Trump’s attempts to revive the coal industry or the investigation of car manufacturers for choosing to implement more stringent emission controls on their vehicles.
quote: And this is more confusion and conspiracy-mongering. Political Correctness is basically just politeness. Carried to an extreme, perhaps but that is it. The Republican party’s corruption and desire for power is a far bigger threat to democracy.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
There's no hope, RAZD, it's out there for you to see, but it's spun into oblivion and I don't know how to get you to see it. ... So no evidence, no facts, just run away from the argument because you don't have anything but opinion, bias, and assertion/s. No I don't see whispy clouds and imaginary beasts, I look at facts. Like the numbers of Trump aides that have been indicted and convicted of crimes versus other presidents, democrat and republican. And the list isn't finished yet, there are more still pending. Trump is working on being the most corrupt, conniving amoral president in history, making a real mark for himself in the history books. There are also criminal cases waiting for him when he leaves the presidency and the protection from Barr and McConnell. How many of Donald Trump's advisers have been convicted? | Trump administration | The Guardian https://www.washingtonpost.com/...ld-be-about-to-grow-longer Makes Nixon look like a boy scout.
... Maybe Marc can. Why, is he better at providing actual facts? Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.4 |
Trump treats immigrants the way Germany treated Jews -- caging them, separating their families, failing to provide medical attention etc -- that fascist. Was Theodore Roosevelt a fascist?
What is comparable done by liberals? Climate-change terror. It has been wildly ramped up since the last year of the Obama administration.
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