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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2476 of 2686 (874844)
04-10-2020 11:45 PM
Reply to: Message 2474 by Sarah Bellum
04-10-2020 9:43 PM


Re: Divorce
Jesus said that Moses loosened the Law on divorce because of the hardness of heart he found in the Israelite men. Commentaries described them as divorcing their wives for all kinds of trivial reasons, like how they burned the food and so on. The Law itself is still "God hates divorce" despite Moses' loosening of it for the sake of accommodating a strong if bad habit, presumably to keep the peace or something along those lines.

There is plenty of argument about possible acceptable reasons for divorce and certainly unfaithfulness ("fornication") is often considered a good reason. Some argue even against that, however. But "God hates divorce" stands pretty much as the bottom line in all cases. Unfortunately the churches have joined the culture in allowing easy divorce, being far more lenient than even Moses was. I think most churches go way too far these days. The divorce statistic for Christians is indistinguishable from that for nonChristians.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2474 by Sarah Bellum, posted 04-10-2020 9:43 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2481 by Sarah Bellum, posted 04-11-2020 9:29 AM Faith has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2477 of 2686 (874845)
04-10-2020 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 2475 by dwise1
04-10-2020 10:46 PM


Re: Divorce
Women could not divorce their husbands in the time of Moses. They couldn't do much of anything in the time of Moses.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2475 by dwise1, posted 04-10-2020 10:46 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2478 by frako, posted 04-11-2020 12:37 AM Faith has responded
 Message 2479 by dwise1, posted 04-11-2020 1:25 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2923
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 2478 of 2686 (874847)
04-11-2020 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 2477 by Faith
04-10-2020 11:49 PM


Re: Divorce
Well yea according to the bible, women are little more then baby making cattle. with the same rights as cattle.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2477 by Faith, posted 04-10-2020 11:49 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 4352
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 2479 of 2686 (874848)
04-11-2020 1:25 AM
Reply to: Message 2477 by Faith
04-10-2020 11:49 PM


Re: Divorce
Well, considering how astonishingly wrong you have consistently been about just about everything else, I am most definitely going to take the rabbi's word over yours on this one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2477 by Faith, posted 04-10-2020 11:49 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2480 of 2686 (874868)
04-11-2020 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 2478 by frako
04-11-2020 12:37 AM


Re: Divorce
I think I swent too far in my own comment. Women couldn't divorce their husbands in Moses' time, and didn't have many of the rights men had, but there are some very strong women in the Bible, and some very loving relationships between spouses too. It's not always the harsh "chattel" idea that is so familiar.

This message is a reply to:
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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 656
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2481 of 2686 (874879)
04-11-2020 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 2476 by Faith
04-10-2020 11:45 PM


Re: Divorce
By this aren't you saying that you and other religions disagree on whether or not "God hates divorce"? What bible passage are you using to justify your disagreement with these other religions?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2476 by Faith, posted 04-10-2020 11:45 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2483 by Faith, posted 04-11-2020 6:28 PM Sarah Bellum has acknowledged this reply

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 656
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2482 of 2686 (874880)
04-11-2020 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 2475 by dwise1
04-10-2020 10:46 PM


Re: Divorce
I've always thought that religions are vast piles of sentences saying an enormous variety of not necessarily consistent things, so somebody could claim whatever they want and pretend to have divine right behind them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2475 by dwise1, posted 04-10-2020 10:46 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2483 of 2686 (874909)
04-11-2020 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 2481 by Sarah Bellum
04-11-2020 9:29 AM


Re: Divorce
I am not addressing "other religions" at all. I chose Chrisxtianity because I was persuaded it's true, the Bible is actually given to us by God Himself, and in making that choice I gave up all other religions as false. Not without studying them to some extent. I read my way to belief over a period of years and recognized that the truth is in the Bible so what other religions say may have some academic interest but that's about all.

I thought Jesus quoted "God hates diveroce" but I can't find it. It does occur in the OT in Malachi in a translation I don't use:

(NASB) 16 For I hatedivorce,” says the Lord, the God of Israel,
I didn't look up the other translations but they would just have variations on this same meaning.

Jesus doesn't quote it, he merely expands on it, saying the woman is caused to commit adultery if you divorce her..

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2481 by Sarah Bellum, posted 04-11-2020 9:29 AM Sarah Bellum has acknowledged this reply

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 656
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2484 of 2686 (880412)
08-05-2020 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 891 by Phat
06-30-2019 3:51 PM


Re: Ancestral Sin Inheritance
But you certainly shouldn't be punished for what someone else did.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 891 by Phat, posted 06-30-2019 3:51 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 656
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2485 of 2686 (880425)
08-05-2020 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1058 by Son Goku
07-05-2019 3:02 AM


Re: chances
You wrote
quote:
The universe doesn't operate like Conway's Game of Life where you get complexity from quite simple basics.
Simple things like Newton's laws can result in things that baffle supercomputers, like the trajectories of asteroids in the Solar System over the long term.

But my point was not that the universe is simple, but that complex things can arise from simplicity, so there is no need to postulate a creator deity to explain the universe.


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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 656
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2486 of 2686 (880426)
08-05-2020 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1198 by Phat
07-08-2019 9:27 AM


Re: Theology, Philosophy, and Facts vs Fiction
That makes sense.

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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 656
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2487 of 2686 (880440)
08-06-2020 1:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1569 by Tangle
07-31-2019 3:31 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
But surely there had to be some who thought up the idea first?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1569 by Tangle, posted 07-31-2019 3:31 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2490 by Tangle, posted 08-06-2020 2:58 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 656
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2488 of 2686 (880441)
08-06-2020 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 2464 by ringo
01-11-2020 11:08 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
You write
quote:
There is no evidence that James Bond exists but the idea of James Bond is not illogical. There is no evidence that Holden Caulfield exists but the idea of Holden Caulfield is not illogical. There is no evidence that Tom Joad exists but the idea of Tom Joad is not illogical. There is no evidence that Long John Silver exists but the idea of Long John Silver is not illogical. There is no evidence that Lemuel Gulliver exists but the idea of Lemuel Gulliver is not illogical. There is no evidence that Jesus exists but the idea of Jesus is not illogical.

There is no evidence that God exists but the idea of God is not illogical.


By your way of thinking, the idea of a secret agent with a license to kill, equipped with clever gadgets, etc. is not an "illogical" thing, even though a particular one labeled 007 doesn't exist. Fair enough. But the idea of Tarot cards (which we agree do exist) telling your future is not logical, even though one could go through the process of reading someone's fortune and, often (especially with a judicious use of cold reading) attain surprising accuracy.

In the same way that the process of Tarot card reading is not a logical method of foretelling the future, the idea of a deity (by whatever you mean your deity to be, whether an explanation for lightning bolts or a morality car wash to clean away your sins) is not a logical thing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2464 by ringo, posted 01-11-2020 11:08 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2494 by ringo, posted 08-06-2020 9:54 AM Sarah Bellum has responded
 Message 2499 by Phat, posted 08-06-2020 10:35 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 656
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2489 of 2686 (880442)
08-06-2020 1:28 AM
Reply to: Message 2466 by Tangle
01-11-2020 11:54 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
It's tough to stake out the position that there is no evidence for a deity in the face of statements that some of the great philosophers of the past have thought there was a deity.

Nevertheless...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2466 by Tangle, posted 01-11-2020 11:54 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2491 by Tangle, posted 08-06-2020 3:19 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 2490 of 2686 (880446)
08-06-2020 2:58 AM
Reply to: Message 2487 by Sarah Bellum
08-06-2020 1:09 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:

But surely there had to be some who thought up the idea first?

Sure but it's developmental, simple ideas become more elaborate as tails are told. Christianity formed from Judeism. Islam from both.

Splits and schisms create varieties - Sunnies and Shi'ites, Catholics and Protestants, Orthodox and non-Orthodox

But also sometimes religions are made up entirely by a single individual - Mormonism, Scientology.

It's evolution combined with special creation.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2487 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2020 1:09 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2492 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2020 9:37 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
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