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Author | Topic: I Know That God Does Not Exist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
Whether he "needs" it or not, the evidence is there. Whether he sees it or not, the evidence is there. Does a monkey need evidence for the existence of the Large Hadron Collider in order for the the Large Hadron Collider to exist?"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
You can be as afraid as you like. Science is never about proof. Again, try to make your argument without using the word 'proof'. I'm afraid it is about proof. The statement, "I know that God does not exist" carries with it the burden of proof."Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
Nonsense. I'd be tickled pink if there was a sky-daddy to fix all my problems for me. And I'd be even pinker if there was an afterlife where I could see all the people again whom I loved in this life.
Atheists deny the personal experiences of believers simply because they don't want such experiences to exist .. just as they don't want God to exist. Dredge writes:
That's your own fault because you're a habitual liar. I've personally experienced two miracles, but atheists dismiss them as lies or madness ..."Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Dredge writes:
The part that's in the Science Forums - i.e. all of it.
Which part of "I know that God does not exist" is about science? Dredge writes:
It doesn't. Unless you can provide citations of scientific papers on that topic.
So science can't prove that Tiger Woods can hit a golf ball further than me? Dredge writes:
It's not a proof. It's an accumulation of evidence.
Science can't prove that water boils at about 100^C under standard pressure at sea level? Dredge writes:
DNA doesn't produce mutations. DNA is subject to mutations caused by radiation, etc.
Science can't prove that DNA produces mutations? Dredge writes:
I meant to say, "Science doesn't deal in proof," and I did say it. I think you meant to say, "A scientific theory is never about proof.""Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
I don't see how it's extrapolating anything, but yes, of course evidence exists independent of any observer. Evidence is not some structure that you build up in your head to support your ideas. The evidence is there - and you can use the evidence to form ideas.
Are you extrapolating that Evidence would "exist" even without humans? (Or Monkeys) Phat writes:
Again, I don't see where logic enters into it. The evidence is there and was there, period. We can use logic to operate on the evidence to draw conclusions.
Based on that logic, we could say "In The Beginning, Evidence. Phat writes:
Who would think that is not plausible? I remember one time when you thought it plausible that "In The Beginning, Chemicals.""Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
Why wouldn't it? Science can discuss anything. I didn't know science includes discussions about God."Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
What part of "never" did you not understand?
ringo writes:
So science can't prove... Science is never about proof. Dredge writes:
A mutation is defined as a change in the DNA sequence of an organism. You can't "prove" a definition. ... that a change in the DNA sequence of an organism results in a mutation?"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
How do they do that, exactly? What evidence would they have that would cause them to believe? When you had your confirmation on the road to becoming a "good" Catholic, did you compile evidence before allowing yourself to believe? Some folks would do exactly that."Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Tanypteryx writes:
We used to have a bakery in town where they baked raisin bread on Sunday afternoons. If i was anywhere near, I'd detour past the bakery to smell it. I was thinking the smell of fresh baked bread before I got to it on your list! I remember smelling it when my mom set them to cool on an open window sill when I was a kid."Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
Science can't prove anything about anything. How many times do you have to be told? So you're saying science can't prove anything about DNA and genetics? It's as if you're asking if a bus driver can do brain surgery. No, he can't. He can't do ANY kind of surgery. Surgery is not part of a bus driver's purview."Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
You're being dishonest. You asked Dredge if he compiled evidence and you said that, " Some folks would do exactly that." (Message 3007) Don't try to weasel out now with your "beievers don't need evidence" dogma.
Believers dont need evidence. Phat writes:
YES! Thank God we do that! You have allowed the concept of evidence to override or block any inner functions of confirmation. If the doctor is about to amputate your gangrenous foot, do the want his "inner functions of confirmation" to tell him to remove the healthy foot instead? Or do you want him to follow the evidence?
Phat writes:
That wasn't my question. Your statement, in Message 3007 was that some folks would compile evidence and I asked how they would do that. I couldn't care less what excuses believers use for skipping the scientific method.
Im simply answering your question of how believers may have skipped the scientific method in their respective born-again experiences. Phat writes:
That's no mystery. Their first critical thought is, "What do I need to be saved from?" and the answer, given by you believers, is that we need to be saved from God's wrath. So having God save us from God's wrath doesn't even come close to passing the critical thinking test.
It may also explain why so few critical thinkers ever get saved. Phat writes:
Put another way, believers take the lazy way out.
Put another way, believers avoid the scientific method of falsification. Phat writes:
Both good things. They suggest tentativity. It smacks of double-mindedness and doubt. Believers, on the other hand, pick a side without putting a moment's thought into it. "Gimme that old-time religion. It was good enough for mother and it's good enough for me." But you're likely to have picked the wrong one.
Phat writes:
Why not? What good comes from leaving logic by the wayside?
Salvation is not some logical experiment. Phat writes:
I was, as much as you are. Maybe more-so. (After all, you feel guilty about not following your so-called leader as much as I do.)
And don't go explaining to me again how you once were saved. Phat writes:
I don't need to defend anything to you. God decides who is and/or was saved. You don't.
If you defend any claim that you were... Phat writes:
You can reverse "being saved" by recognizing the truth - that it's a crock of shit. ... you couldn't reverse being saved unless you are in denial due to the science of word definitions.Edited by ringo, : Speeling. "Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
dwise1 writes:
The churches I went to as a child (my mother was a Mennonite and my father was Pentecostal) had "baby dedications" which took the place of infant baptism and "believers' baptism" which you would choose voluntarily when you were about twelve. I think mthey had formal classes about what you were supposed to believe but I never took them. Unfortunately, many Protestant churches don't have any form of confirmation. I never chose to be baptized (mostly through inertia). Some people really freak out when I tell them I have never been baptized. Then I tell them I don't have a soul.
dwise1 writes:
Yeah, that was what did it for me. My advice to theistic parents who don't want their children to become atheists: Never leave your child alone with a Bible!"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That "dusty old book" that doesn't limit you? I have more respect for the Bible than you do.
"There is a lowered view of the Bible" Phat writes:
That sounds exactly like you.
"In progressive churches, personal experiences, feelings and opinions tend to be valued above objective truth." Phat writes:
You say that like it's a bad thing. jar is a progressive as is EvC in general. My own family is likely progressive. It's funny how "liberal" and "progressive" have become swear words to you right-wing-nuts. "Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Animals have all of that. I was taught that the "soul" is the mind, will, and emotions. Mind=What I think Will=What I want Emotions-What I feel. The soul separates humans from other animals. "Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
A brain surgeon can't fly an F-15. Doesn't mean he's dumb. So science can't even prove that I'm taller than an ant. Wow ... science is so dumb!"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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