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Author | Topic: I Know That God Does Not Exist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
dwise1 writes:
Thank you so much for this truly beautiful story of human redemption. It has moved me to tears. Can you see them? In college he had been a fundamentalist Christian. Surrounded every day by evidence that contradicted his beliefs, he had to maintain a blind eye all the time to filter out reality. That took a heavy toll on him so one day out of exhaustion he applied the Matthew 7:20 Test to his religion. Yes, it did so some good things like hospitals and charities, but it also did many bad things. And in presenting the Matthew 7:20 Test Jesus did stipulate that even one single bad thing produced by a religion makes the entire religion evil. So he became "a complete atheist and total humanist" (his own words) and is far more spiritually fulfilled than he had ever been as a Christian, far more than he ever could have been. Does the Catholic Church pass the "Matthew 7:20 Test"?
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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No. In fact almost no Christian (maybe absolutely none) can pass the Matt 20 test which is pointed out explicitly in Matt 25 where the followers of Jesus are judged as Goats while atheists and most non Abrahamic religions are judged as sheep.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
dwise1 writes:
Complete bullshit, of course. If the doctors at that Catholic hospital knew the fetus was dead, they would have had no ethical objection to removing it.
On progressive radio regarding the recent anti-abortion anti-life advances in the USA, a caller related the story from 30 years ago of a friend whose fetus had died. She was bleeding and would have died soon if that dead fetus weren't removed. Her husband took her to the ER of a Catholic hospital and they refused to treat her because that would have been an abortion. They were literally willing to let her die in agony. Her husband had to search desperately for a hospital that would save his wife's life and thankfully succeeded.On progressive radio
... a euphemism for a bunch of Loony Left atheists who typically hate the Catholic Church and love everything that is sleazy and unclean. We've got the same species of deceitful, left-wing trash down here in Australia.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Dredge writes:
See Schrödinger's cat. If the doctors at that Catholic hospital knew the fetus was dead...."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
dwise1 writes:
How did you come up with this idiotic interpretation of Scripture?
In the Matthew 7:20 Test Jesus was very uncompromising: even just one single wicked consequence of a religion makes the whole religion wicked. Totally black and white, not one single hint of gray to it.Your "hospitals and charities" count for nothing to Jesus.
A Bible dunce has spoken ...
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Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
jar writes:
Hilarious.
In fact almost no Christian (maybe absolutely none) can pass the Matt 20 test which is pointed out explicitly in Matt 25 where the followers of Jesus are judged as Goats while atheists and most non Abrahamic religions are judged as sheep.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
Be more specific. What exactly is "idiotic" about the obvious interpretation? How did you come up with this idiotic interpretation of Scripture?"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7
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Thank you so much for this truly beautiful story of human redemption. Always a pleasure to share pearls of wisdom. I'll even cast them before swine (not referring to present company). I haven't had the opportunity to use this one yet, but if asked "Are you saved?" I can honestly answer "Yes. I stopped being a Christian over half a century ago and it's the best thing to have happened to me!"
Does the Catholic Church pass the "Matthew 7:20 Test"? Of course not! No religion nor any other human endeavor could. That test "straight from Jesus' mouth" is actually unreasonable. A religion has to be absolutely perfect or else it's completely evil? That's impossible to live up to! Whoever put those words in Jesus' mouth hadn't thought it through. However, citing that test is very useful to get a religious fanatic to reflect on his own gross misbehavior. Not that any of them ever would self-reflect, but we must keep trying. For that matter, it's lost on most "true Christians" because it's from the Bible, a book that none of them have ever bothered to read. But I keep citing it in the hope that it might eventually get through to them. A pessimist must be the happiest person alive: 99.99% of the time he has the satisfaction of being right and occasionally he's pleasantly surprised. Though we do see so many fundies and other extreme Christian types using the Test's same extreme black/white lack of reasoning all the time.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
How did you come up with this idiotic interpretation of Scripture? So from your catholic apologetics the proper interpretation of that scripture would be what?Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
Complete bullshit, of course. If the doctors at that Catholic hospital knew the fetus was dead, they would have had no ethical objection to removing it. All I have to go by is my memory of what the caller had said. Maybe the fetus wasn't verifiably dead yet -- or maybe it wasn't even a fetus yet but still just an embryo -- , but there was definitely no way that the mother could survive and hence neither could the embryo/fetus. He also didn't state (nor probably knew) the reasons stated by the doctors for their refusal to act to save her life. It might have been nothing more than a strict hospital policy against any kind of abortion that they had to follow blindly. Christians are that way, you know, blindly obeying "God's Law" even when it will cost a life -- according to my rabbinic lit professor, Rabbi Kalir, Jewish morality holds that if obeying God's laws would result in the loss of a life, you must disobey God and save that life (because of that, I hold Jewish morality to be far superior to Christian "morality"). The point of his story is that the Catholic hospital would have let her die. Regardless of whatever excuses they may have given. Though I seem to recall the caller saying that it was because the procedure would have technically been classified as an abortion.
DWise1 writes:
... a euphemism for a bunch of Loony Left atheists ... On progressive radio Well, reality does have a definite liberal bias. And it's a proven fact that religious fanaticism has caused far more than its share of suffering and death, something that "Loony Left atheists" oppose and try to work against. For example, now that access to safe abortions is being threatened in the USA, many state legislatures are busy passing laws banning abortion in all cases, including to safe the life of the mother. And they are writing those laws for religious reasons. Specifically for the purpose of their Christian beliefs (actually for the purpose of playing to their religious fanatic constituents).
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
How did you come up with this idiotic interpretation of Scripture? By having actually read the Bible. You should try it some time.
DWise1 writes:
A Bible dunce has spoken ... Your "hospitals and charities" count for nothing to Jesus. How so? The Matthew 7:20 clearly states that it is impossible for a good tree to being forth wicked fruit, but rather any wicked fruit is evidence of a wicked tree which should be cut down and thrown into the fire (Jesus' own words, according to Scripture). It doesn't matter how much good a religion does, because even a single wicked consequence of that religion defines that religion as wicked, erasing all the good that it may have ever done. It's right there in the Bible. Read it!
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
Hilarious. Are you saying that religious teachings are nothing but a joke? There may be hope for you yet. Read the Bible. That's what turned me and many others into atheists. It could help you too.
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kjsimons Member Posts: 822 From: Orlando,FL Joined: Member Rating: 5.7
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This happened in Ireland back in 2012, a Dr. died because the hospital wouldn't perform an abortion because the fetus had a heartbeat even though the pregnancy was killing her. Now in this case the fetus wasn't dead yet, but the refusal to consider the mother's life before the fetus is the insanity of religion on display. Woman dies after abortion request 'refused' at Galway hospital
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The problem is that far too many Christians willingly refuse to honestly read what is written in the various stories cataloged as 'The Bible we accept and all the other versions are wrong' and paradoxically use 2Timmy as the 'source'.
Sola Scritura painted much of Christianity in a corner where they must deny and hand wave away much of what is actually written so that they can claim that what is written is authoritative and absolute. 2Timmy and 2Petie are among the early indicators of the Apologist and Carny Barker. Whoever actually suggested that Jesus should ride into Jerusalem on an ass was their mentor and guide. When in doubt, put on a show and proclaim it fulfills a miracle.My Website: My Website
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Son Goku Inactive Member |
Just to say this isn't a closely tied to religion in Ireland as I think it is in the US. Opposition to abortion is still pretty high amongst atheists in Ireland. When I was an undergrad the head of the anti-abortion league in my uni was an ardent atheist.
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