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Author | Topic: What if Jesus and Satan were real? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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Giving your heart does involve doing something, but the Matthew sheep/goats scripture is addressed to Jews who need to do good works (and obey the Law perfectly..or as near as can be done) in order to be righteous. How do you know which of Jesus' teachings were meant for those people back then and which ones were meant for us today?
People make the mistake of assuming that the Gospel of Grace preached by the Apostle Paul is some sort of cheap substitute and marketing gimmick That's because of the behavior of its proponents...
You cant simply go do good works and have a callous indifference to God. It wont work. That god is kind of a jerk.
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jar Member (Idle past 165 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Giving your heart does involve doing something, but the Matthew sheep/goats scripture is addressed to Jews who need to do good works (and obey the Law perfectly..or as near as can be done) in order to be righteous. Nonsense Phat and you know better than to try crap like that.
quote: Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
My point is that Jesus needs to be more than "real" simply as a great human example of what to do. Jesus being real implies that the resurrection has and had a power to change peoples lives Which has absolutely nothing to do with the question I asked you. I'm not sure getting answers out of you is worth the effort. I'm dropping out of active participation in this thread for awhile to see if anyone else can make any sense out of what you post.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Theodoric writes: Im assuming that you believe that you yourself give meanings that you choose to words that you either say or read. Either that or you assume some sort of secular consensus...which is rubbish. Here, tell me what you think the following words mean...to you. Then tell me what you think the author intended the meaning to be.
..."A bunch of words just strung together because they sound nice and sound like they actually mean something when in fact they mean nothing." quote:
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Who is His audience?
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jar Member (Idle past 165 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What the hell does the story say?
It says "All the nations". Have you joined yet another of the dispensationalist cults?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
You know me. I seek honesty and the Spirit.
You may argue that I have historically preferred fantasy over reality, but I would respond by saying that it is an unresolved matter what proportion and distribution of each is.(fantasy & reality)
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jar Member (Idle past 165 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You know me. I seek honesty and the Spirit. You may argue that I have historically preferred fantasy over reality, but I would respond by saying that it is an unresolved matter what proportion and distribution of each is.(fantasy & reality). Do you? Reality can be tested. We can actually go read Matthew 25 to see what it says the audience was. It appears the answer to my question is "Yes, you've joined another of the dispensationalist cults". They make you feel good and so you accept gladly their misrepresentation of what the Bible actually says. You prefer the comfortable fantasy over the unpleasant reality.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So, if the sheep/goats scripture doesn't apply to you Giving your heart does involve doing something, but the Matthew sheep/goats scripture is addressed to Jews who need to do good works (and obey the Law perfectly..or as near as can be done) in order to be righteous.![]() Phat writes:
So there's no point at all to the good works themselves?
... the point of giving your heart is that you allow the Holy Spirit to empower you to joyfully do good works---not as an effort towards salvation but as a cheerful result of surrendering to God.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
My point is that Jesus needs to be more than "real" simply as a great human example of what to do. Jesus being real implies that the resurrection has and had a power to change peoples lives I see now that I was mistaken. Your statement above was indeed meant to answer my question. And the answer is that you believe that Jesus being more than a great example with Whom God was well pleased actually means ignoring Jesus example. Like many dispensers, you have embraced a religion in which the difficult, action, parts of the New Testament apply only to Jews. Well at least you are honest about it.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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frako Member Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
Im just butting in but would Jesus be happy with anyone if he came back. Sure there are loads that go to mass on sunday and pray real hard there but jesus said: “Whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, because they love to pray while standing in synagogues and on street corners so that people can see them. Truly I say to you, they have their reward. But whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father, who sees in secret, will reward you” (Matthew 6:5-6).
So he would call those people hypocrites. Sure there are loads who say they follow Jesus, but this is what Jesus said on numerous occasions: "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." just following does not cut it With these an numerous examples of things the so called most devout Christians dont follow. Do you really think his priority would be if you believed the earth was created in 7 days when all reason says it wasn't. Do you really think he would care if anyone believed he was the son of god or just some good philosopher. I think he would probably be more concerned on how good you where to your fellow men and how much you forgave. Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Sure there are loads who say they follow Jesus, but this is what Jesus said on numerous occasions: "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." I understand your point, but is what you say really accurate? Did Jesus actually say this on numerous occasions? This story is told in Luke and Matthew, but isn't that the same incident? Jesus also asked his disciples to leave their families, but I don't take that to mean that Jesus values deadbeat dads.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Do good works cheerfully yet not of necessity. You should in theory want to do them.
Ringo writes: So, if the sheep/goats scripture doesn't apply to you ![]() God never changes.
Stam writes: The principle of law or justice, for example, has continued unchanged throughthe ages. No matter what the dispensation, when wrong is done God's sense of justice is offended. This may be simply demonstrated by three Scriptural examples: Cain lived before the dispensation of the law by Moses. Cain murdered his brother Abel. Was this right or wrong? Did he get into trouble over it? He did, although the written law had not yet been given. David lived under the law of Moses. He also committed murder. Was this right or wrong? Wrong, of course, and he also got into trouble over it. You and I live after the law, under the dispensation of grace. Suppose we should commit murder, would that be right or wrong? Would we get into trouble over it - with God? Would the fact that Christ bore our sins on Calvary, make murder any more right? Would God look upon it as less sinful because it took place under the dispensation of grace? You say, in the case of the true believer today, the full legal penalty for the sin would still have been borne by Christ and, though he knew it not, David too was forgiven on this ground. But does not the very fact that David's sins and ours were paid for, rather than overlooked, prove that the principles of law and justice remain fixed? Good works are always a good thing. The point is that they are not the road to salvation. We are not judged merely by what we do. I might add that a person whom counts faith as righteousness would quite naturlally do good works anyway, at least in theory. ---people often make the mistake of assuming that if they feel better about themselves, providence will smile upon them. Edited by Phat, : edit
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
I might accuse you of being in and/or believing in a cult of good works. Christianity is not just about what you do. Its about why you do it and its about your relationship with the living God...if people do good works out of ignorance that there is a living God, I suppose He would deal with them as they are. Too many critical thinkers have shoved the relationship out of their realm of possibility. Logic and Reason are often enemies of faith.
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jar Member (Idle past 165 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
If you had read the Bible you would see that God does change. In fact the god found in Genesis 1 is entirely different than the god found in Genesis 2&3.
But again, Jesus said you need to do good works. Jesus never said you need to do them cheerfully and in fact the Bible shows Jesus being coerced into doing good works he did not want to do.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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