Summations Only

Hebrews 11 can not confirm anything about Genesis 22. That is just another example of after the fact made up fake prophecy.It is an example of the commentators trying to shoehorn Jesus into Judaic Scripture and all the evidence is that it failed then and still fails today.There are no prophecies about Jesus in the Old Testament, only totally dishonest after the fact attempts that fool no one except those who are willfully ignorant and accustomed to lying to themselves.

No one questions that there are lots of folk that believe such nonsense or that the authors of the New Testament tales often put words in Jesus' mouth, but that has nothing to do with whether or not such assertions can be supported.And yes, the Old Testament has lots of messianic prophecies, just Jesus does not fill any of those requirements.Jesus at best might be considered another failed Jewish Messiah except that he did not even fulfill those minimal standards.

Nonsense. The simply human authors of the stories write dialog for the Jesus character's lines in the stories.I have no problem answering for anything I say and no respect for any so called god that is so small and insignificant as to get insulted by what I say. That idea is just too laughable. Edited by jar, : an ---> and

However if you actually look at the claims not even one single claim of Jesus being mentioned or referred to in the Old Testament can be supported. They are all simply not true.AbE: To save time and since this has been covered so many times before, Are any of these prophecies fulfilled by Jesus? is a thread looking at the most common prophetic claims regarding Jesus and each one is soundly debunked.If there are others we can look at them individually Faith.Edited by jar, : see AbE:Edited by jar, : may ---> manyEdited by jar, : fix sub-title

Faith, if you think you can support any Old Testament prophecy or even reference to Jesus then maybe you can present the chapter and verse over at Are any of these prophecies fulfilled by Jesus? so we can examine it.

Well thank you. You notice members of the CCoI still claim there are prophecies of Jesus in the Old Testament but it seems they have learned not to mention them by Chapter and Verse here since I will post the actual content for all to see. Just this week I heard one of the Christian con men on TV claim that there were over 300 such prophecies but so far I have never found even one that can stand up to examination.It is simply more evidence that the Bible is simply the words of men. That does not mean it is false or worthless but rather that theology like Faith tries to market just diminishes the worth of scripture and makes god look stupid.It is a failure of Christianity to actually teach what is written and the history and context needed.

And that is why Biblical Christianity is a threat to mankind and needs to be feared and constantly watched; and as Faith has said they think it is alright to censor and control and oppress any thoughts that might disagree with them.

A lamb is not a ram. It is not the sacrificial lamb that takes away sins but rather the 'scape goat' that carries away sins.Once again you simply provide evidence that either the Bible is simply the words of men or the God that inspired it is not capable of ever getting a story straight twice.It's not the stories that are at error but rather the utterly silly attempt to pretend that the stories all have a common purpose and are without error, contradictions and discrepancies. The problem is not the Bible but rather that the theology you try to market just makes no sense and does not stand up to examination or reality.

LOLSo a duck and a Biblical Daughter went into a bar.FAITH what does the damn story actually say?

quote:

---

29 Then the Spirit of the Lord came upon Jephthah, and he passed over Gilead, and Manasseh, and passed over Mizpeh of Gilead, and from Mizpeh of Gilead he passed over unto the children of Ammon.

​

30 And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the Lord, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,

​

31 Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the Lord's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.

​

32 So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon to fight against them; and the Lord delivered them into his hands.

​

33 And he smote them from Aroer, even till thou come to Minnith, even twenty cities, and unto the plain of the vineyards, with a very great slaughter. Thus the children of Ammon were subdued before the children of Israel.

​

34 And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.

​

35 And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the Lord, and I cannot go back.

​

36 And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the Lord, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the Lord hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon.

​

37 And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows.

​

38 And he said, Go. And he sent her away for two months: and she went with her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains.

​

39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel,

---

It does not matter what Jepthah thought would come out of the door, it was his daughter that came out of his door and he did kill her as he had vowed to do.Now granted the God character in the story is pretty much an asshole but the author does not have the God character say "Slay the duck not the Biblical Daughter and Japhthah does not kill the duck but rather BBQ'd the Biblical daughter and she wasn't even used merchandise (she was still new goods to be bought or sold).

But what does the Bible actually say Faith? I even posted the relevant passages in the story since it did not seem that you had read the Bible.The story not only shows that Jephthah not only promised a human sacrifice but that his daughter understood and agreed that he had done so and that he DID BBQ the girl.Shall I post the passage yet again?Why is it that Biblical Christians seem unable to believe what the Bible actually says?

But there is nothing in the Bible that says or even implies that and ALL the evidence is that that is simply not true. While my father hand one of my brothers had lots of hair two of my brothers were going bald before they were thirty.Now I will point out that when you breed a horse and a donkey you do get a mule but a mule does not have all the characteristics of a horse and a donkey; it's a mule, something that is neither horse nor donkey.

It seems that what is actually written in that Bible story somehow got overlooked and so perhaps reposting the actual text might be worthwhile.

quote:

---

29 Then the Spirit of the Lord came upon Jephthah, and he passed over Gilead, and Manasseh, and passed over Mizpeh of Gilead, and from Mizpeh of Gilead he passed over unto the children of Ammon.

​

30 And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the Lord, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,

​

31 Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the Lord's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.

​

32 So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon to fight against them; and the Lord delivered them into his hands.

​

33 And he smote them from Aroer, even till thou come to Minnith, even twenty cities, and unto the plain of the vineyards, with a very great slaughter. Thus the children of Ammon were subdued before the children of Israel.

​

34 And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.

​

35 And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the Lord, and I cannot go back.

​

36 And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the Lord, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the Lord hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon.

​

37 And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows.

​

38 And he said, Go. And he sent her away for two months: and she went with her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains.

​

39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel,

---

It does not matter what Jepthah thought would come out of the door, it was his daughter that came out of his door and he did kill her as he had vowed to do and burned her as a sacrifice to God and there is nothing in the story that says or implies that the God character found the offering abhorrent.

But again, that is simply marketing Faith and says nothing about Jesus having the attributes of God. To claim a god allowed himself to get killed just makes the whole thing a farce and con game. You keep claiming that there are Old Testament prophecies of Jesus and if you really know of any please bring the Chapter and verse over to Are any of these prophecies fulfilled by Jesus? and if it is not one that has already been shown to be false we can test it.

As I have pointed out several times in this thread it doesn't matter what Jephthah thought would be the first thing to come out his door (although since it is a door to a house expecting a person instead of an ass is not unreasonable); the story says Jephthah made a vow, daughter accepted that it was a valid vow, the girl did get BBQ'd and there is nothing to show that the God character found the offering abhorrent.And what is sick, I agree, are those people who consider such behavior as justified or claim a God that would allow such crap was good. Christian education is often every big as piss poor in the US (I exclude other areas since I am a US citizen and embarrassed that other US citizens can buy into such bullshit) as US history education.

I'm going on because I actually read what the story says and don't just make shit up to change what the story actually says.Shall I post the story yet again or will you continue to deny that the story says what it says?You claim he committed a great sin but again, that is certainly not what the story ays.