|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
|
Author | Topic: I Know That God Does Not Exist | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
A concept doesn't need evidence. There is no evidence for unicorns but it is not an irrational concept. There's a whole realm of literature - science fiction, fantasy - built on concepts that are not evidenced but not irrational.
God is an inherently irrational concept.Because there is no evidence for the concept. Stile writes:
But you were looking in the wrong place for evidence of sharkfin soup. You can't claim there is "no evidence" if you're looking in the wrong place.
Sharkfin soup has evidence that it exists.God does not. Stile writes:
As long as you make the mistake of calling God an irrational concept, you will come up with the same wrong conclusion. How is Sharkfin soup's #1, #2, and #3 the same as God's #1, #2 and #3?All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
Again, rationality has nothing to do with evidence.
Sharkfin soup existing on McDonald's menu is a rational concept - Sharkfin soup and McDonald's menu both have evidence supporting their existence. Stile writes:
You are claiming (Message 1302) that, "God is an inherently irrational concept." It is not. I am not claiming that God does not exist as a concept.I am claiming that God does not exist. All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
Believing that the concept is real may be irrational. The concept itself is not. You're moving the goalposts again. believing that something exists without evidence that it exists is irrational - no?All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
You have not explained in any way how the concept of God is inherently irrational. You just keep asserting it. If you want to redefine irrational" along with "know", etc., it's going to be difficult to figure out what your "context" is. I've explained how this is not applicable and how I'm not moving goalposts. As long as the logic is internally consistent, the concept of God is not irrational. Thus, it is not different from the concept of sharkfin soup. If you contrive to search only in places where you don't expect to find them, you can claim non-existence of either, but your claim will not be very convincing.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
You assert but you don't explain. What is wrong with the internal logic? It's irrational.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
So explain how the concept of God is not logical or reasonable.
Irrational (from the dictionary): not logical or reasonable Stile writes:
But that doesn't agree with the definition that you just posted. You can't just arbitrarily dictate that something must exist to be a rational idea.
Irrational (in the specific context of this discussion): thinking/proposing/claiming that an idea exists in reality when there is no evidence to support that the idea actually exists in reality in the first place. Stile writes:
Of course I disagree. See above.
Sounds very "not logical or reasonable" to me - do you have any disagreement? Stile writes:
Again, evidence has nothing to do with it. If there was evidence to support the premise of God, then the conclusion that God exists would be true. But the premise does not have to be true for the logic to be valid.
Do you agree that the idea that God exists in reality has no evidence to support it? Stile writes:
The logic is not about existence.
But the logic isn't internally consistent... unless you'd like to explain how believing something actually exists without any evidence to suggest that it exists in the first place is actually "rational?" Stile writes:
Galloping goalposts. I have never said that either of those is rational. You will have to explain how banana keys are rational.You will have to explain how crab chairs are rational. I have said that the concept of God is no less rational than the concept of sharkfin soup. The evidence for either may or may not be available - depending on where you look. You can contrive not to find evidence for sharkfin soup by deliberately looking in the wrong place. That does not mean that sharkfin soup does not exist and it does not mean that the idea of sharkfin soup is irrational.
Stile writes:
Goalposts moving again. You said yourself that you looked only on the McDonalds menu for sharkfin soup. As far as your investigation is concerned, sharkfin soup does not exist. And by your logic, the concept of sharkfin soup is irrational. Sharkfin soup has evidence of it's existence.God does not. All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
What, specifically, is irrational about it? We have thunderbolt-throwing technology of our own now. If it ever was rational to imagine a thunderbolt-throwing being on a mountaintop back in Classical times (when humans may not have known any better), it certainly isn't nowadays.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
Yes. Are you asking what's irrational about the image of a bearded, naked man on a mountaintop gripping a chunk of glowng, superheated plasma with an electrical current running through it, preparing to propel it down to the ground? "a chunk of glowng, superheated plasma with an electrical current running through it" is your imagination. Substitute rocket-propelled grenade and then explain how the image is irrational.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
Get your detector fixed. The Greeks may have described it in a different way but there is nothing irrational about the idea. So the ancient Greeks believed in a handsome naked man on the top of Mount Olympus with . . . a rocket-propelled grenade?I'm still detecting irrationality. All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You would be wrong. I would suggest that rocket powered grenades are irrational. They exist, so they fit even Stile's definition.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Rationality is not about what you prefer. I think that ringos idea of eternally existing chemicals that become what we are today is more irrational...but some people prefer that hypothetical line of thought for one reason only---we can do the maths that support it.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
I asked and you didn't answer: What specifically is irrational about the idea? Where is the lack of logic? At the time, perhaps, Greeks didn't know any better, so maybe, at the time, it might have been considered a rational explanation.But two and a half millennia later? All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Nobody's forcing you to accept a sensible worldview. I wish you eggheaded atheists would stop trying to frame a world view which we all must adapt that eliminates modern religion.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
If you're going to ignore what I say, this could take a long time. What's irrational about the notion of a man holding a bit of plasma with an enormous electrical current running through it? I did point out that that is your description of God. We don't have to accept the Gospel According to Sarah Bellum literally, do we? I did point out that the Greeks might possibly have construed some technology more advanced than theirs - some technology even such as ours - as literal lightning. But it doesn't have to literally be lightning for the idea to be rational. So let's try again: Do you have any rational reason for thinking the idea of God is irrational?All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
Does rationality have an expiry date? I would think that rational is rational, regardless of the time frame. Are you insisting that we judge the rationality of the idea of gods by those same standards today? You and Stile both seem to be making the mistake of confusing rational with right. I say that an idea can be rational whether it has any basis in reality or not. You and Stile are calling all fiction irrational. I say that the logic/reason/rationality are separate from the truth value of the premises.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024