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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1890 of 3207 (860273)
08-06-2019 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1888 by Stile
08-06-2019 1:02 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Stile writes:
If someone rationally searched for God's existence - please inform us of the rational link between God and reality.
Without that, it was an irrational search.
No. They could have searched rationally without finding a rational link.
Stile writes:
And if they found God - please inform us of the rational tests that show God's existence.
Without that, it was an irrational claim.
No. Even if the God they found fails all rational tests, that does not mean the search was irrational.
For example, people searched for centuries for the Northwest Passage. Was the search that discovered the Great Lakes and the Mississippi River irrational? If you think so, explain why. Since the tests they performed (looking for an outlet to the Pacific) failed, does that mean the search was irrational? If you think so, explain why.
And of course, the Northwest Passage turned out to be real, though practically impassible.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1888 by Stile, posted 08-06-2019 1:02 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1892 by Stile, posted 08-06-2019 1:53 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1891 of 3207 (860274)
08-06-2019 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1889 by Stile
08-06-2019 1:08 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Stile writes:
And no one is making a claim on lack-of-knowedge.
You are. You're claiming that because we have not found it, it doesn't exist.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1889 by Stile, posted 08-06-2019 1:08 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1893 by Stile, posted 08-06-2019 1:58 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1902 of 3207 (860310)
08-06-2019 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1892 by Stile
08-06-2019 1:53 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Stile writes:
The search's rationality depends on the reasoning to do the search.
That's what I've been saying all along.
Stile writes:
If you do a search simply because "I want to find something" - this is irrational. There is no link to reality from the imagination.
There doesn't need to be a link before you do the search. The whole point of the search is to see if there is a link.
Stile writes:
You seem to be focusing on the search being rational because one accepts the premise.
Not at all. I've said the exact opposite: The reasoning does not depend on the premises being true.
Stile writes:
You cannot avoid the fact that "to be rational" God requires a link from imagination to reality.
That's not a fact. Rationality does not depend on reality.
I can say that if A is true then B must be true. There is nothing irrational about that statement even if A has no connection to reality.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1892 by Stile, posted 08-06-2019 1:53 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1930 by Stile, posted 08-07-2019 8:12 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1903 of 3207 (860311)
08-06-2019 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1893 by Stile
08-06-2019 1:58 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Stile writes:
I'm not claiming that because we have not found God - therefore God does not exist.
I am claiming that I know God does not exist.
That's just lame schoolboy semantics.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1893 by Stile, posted 08-06-2019 1:58 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1905 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 5:15 PM ringo has replied
 Message 1931 by Stile, posted 08-07-2019 8:13 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1906 of 3207 (860315)
08-06-2019 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1894 by Sarah Bellum
08-06-2019 2:14 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:
You are agreeing, aren't you, that all those are irrational? You did write that I shot them down, didn't you?
I said that shooting down one or two ideas of God has no effect on the whole idea of God.
I repeat that you don't seem to understand what rational means. If you did, you could answer my question honestly: What are the logical errors in the idea of God?

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1894 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 2:14 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1918 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 10:20 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1907 of 3207 (860317)
08-06-2019 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1895 by Sarah Bellum
08-06-2019 2:15 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:
Why do you keep refusing to read and respond to my posts?
I have responded to every one of your posts. I have answered every question that you asked me. On one occasion, you said you would answer my question if I answered yours first - but you never answered mine.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1895 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 2:15 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1913 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 5:38 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1908 of 3207 (860318)
08-06-2019 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1896 by Sarah Bellum
08-06-2019 2:16 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:
Good for you!
Your bias is showing.
And it's not the only foolish mistake you've made in this thread. Maybe you can redeem yourself by answering my question: What are the logical errors in the idea of God?

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1896 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 2:16 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1915 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 5:47 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1910 of 3207 (860320)
08-06-2019 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1905 by Sarah Bellum
08-06-2019 5:15 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:
Before you can decide whether or not there is a deity, you have to decide what a deity is.
That would be your problem, not mine. You have declared the idea of God to be irrational without any clear understanding of what the idea is. Your arguments have been strawmen.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1905 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 5:15 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1912 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 5:35 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1911 of 3207 (860321)
08-06-2019 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1909 by Sarah Bellum
08-06-2019 5:24 PM


Re: Protestant is Evil
Sarah Bellum writes:
Well, at least you're not pretending that I'm not answering your posts, like ringo is.
You're answering my posts. You're not answering my question: List the logical errors in the idea of God.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1909 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 5:24 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1924 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 10:46 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1914 of 3207 (860325)
08-06-2019 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1912 by Sarah Bellum
08-06-2019 5:35 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:
If you claim that my understanding of the idea is not clear, then you really ought to try to make it clear.
I think I have. I think I gave an example. Here it is again:
Suppose I said, "If a four-legged object is a coffee table, then my dog is a coffee table." That statement is rational even if the premise is inaccurate and the conclusion is absurd.
On the other hand, suppose I said, "If a four-legged object is a coffee table, then coffee comes from Brazil." That statement is irrational because the conclusion doesn't follow from the premise. Even if the conclusion is true, the logic is wrong.
Are you with me so far? If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
Now for homework, answer my question: What are the logical errors, if any, in the idea of God?

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1912 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 5:35 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1920 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 10:31 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1916 of 3207 (860327)
08-06-2019 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1913 by Sarah Bellum
08-06-2019 5:38 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:
So how about telling me why you think the idea of god (any particular one, you choose, if you wish) is rational?
I didn't say it was rational. I asked you to show that it's irrational. I'm still waiting.
Edited by ringo, : No reason given.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1913 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 5:38 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1925 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 10:48 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1917 of 3207 (860328)
08-06-2019 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1915 by Sarah Bellum
08-06-2019 5:47 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:
Bias? If not adhering to any of these superstitions after 9/11, the Northern Irish Troubles, the persecution of the Rohingya, the pogroms and, of course, the Final Solution, is bias then what do you call unbiased?
Unbiased would be arguing in favor of an idea I don't believe in.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1915 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 5:47 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1919 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 10:24 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1921 of 3207 (860336)
08-06-2019 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1918 by Sarah Bellum
08-06-2019 10:20 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:
You insisted that I was "shooting down one or two ideas of God".
You're grasping at straws. I didn't "insist" on anything. My intent was to say that you addressed a tiny fraction of the problem. Even if your arguments had any value, they were equivalent to using a teaspoon to empty the ocean.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1918 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 10:20 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1926 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 10:50 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1922 of 3207 (860337)
08-06-2019 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1919 by Sarah Bellum
08-06-2019 10:24 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:
Why would arguing in favor of something you don't believe in be unbiased? I would think it would be the exact opposite of unbiased?
That doesn't make any sense at all.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1919 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 10:24 PM Sarah Bellum has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1923 of 3207 (860338)
08-06-2019 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1920 by Sarah Bellum
08-06-2019 10:31 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:
So an incorrect argument is irrational, according to you.
I said it can be. I gave you an example.
Sarah Bellum writes:
But couldn't someone make an error in a carefully reasoned argument?
Of course.
Sarah Bellum writes:
Would that argument then be irrational, or just incorrect?
If there was an error in reasoning, it would be irrational. That's what the words mean.
A "correct" or "incorrect" conclusion has nothing to do with whether or not the argument is rational.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1920 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 10:31 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1927 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 10:59 PM ringo has replied

  
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