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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1937 of 3207 (860384)
08-07-2019 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1924 by Sarah Bellum
08-06-2019 10:46 PM


Re: Protestant is Evil
Sarah Bellum writes:
Like the idea of horoscopes or poltergeists or lucky rabbit's feet (not so lucky for the rabbit, was it?) the idea of god is simply irrational.
You're still confusing wrong with irrational.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1924 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 10:46 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1943 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-07-2019 11:32 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1938 of 3207 (860386)
08-07-2019 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1925 by Sarah Bellum
08-06-2019 10:48 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:
Ah, so you're just watching, not participating in the discussion. That explains a lot.
Don't be stupid. I have participated more than you have. You're the one who refuses to answer a simple question.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1925 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 10:48 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1947 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-07-2019 11:37 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1939 of 3207 (860387)
08-07-2019 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1926 by Sarah Bellum
08-06-2019 10:50 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:
You're saying "Even if your arguments had any value" as if you'd explained why you disagreed with those arguments. Since you haven't . . .
Anybody who has read the thread can see that that isn't true.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1926 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 10:50 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1948 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-07-2019 11:38 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1940 of 3207 (860389)
08-07-2019 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1927 by Sarah Bellum
08-06-2019 10:59 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:
How does one decide if an idea itself is irrational?
That's what I've been asking you. Why do you refuse to answer?
You have made the positive claim that the idea of God is irrational. It is up to you to back up that claim. So how do you decide if an idea itself is irrational?
Sarah Bellum writes:
You're making progress.
Since I've been saying the same thing all along, maybe we can hope that you are finally making some progress.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1927 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-06-2019 10:59 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1949 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-07-2019 11:40 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1942 of 3207 (860391)
08-07-2019 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1930 by Stile
08-07-2019 8:12 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Stile writes:
If there's no link - then it's irrational to suggest that the search is going to turn up something that will overturn the current conclusion of "I know that God does not exist."
Northwest Passage. There was no link until there was. The idea was never irrational. It was never irrational to think that a link would/might be found. It was never correct to say, "I know the Northwest Passage doesn't exist."
Stile writes:
Can you agree that, given no link to reality, the reasoning for the search for God has no bearing on the reasoning of whether or not God actually exists?
No. The lack of a link is never a given.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1930 by Stile, posted 08-07-2019 8:12 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1958 by Stile, posted 08-07-2019 2:09 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1944 of 3207 (860393)
08-07-2019 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1931 by Stile
08-07-2019 8:13 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Stile writes:
If you want to suggest that knowledge should be considered absolute - you can make your case.
Nobody on this forum is more vehemently opposed to absolutes than I am.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1931 by Stile, posted 08-07-2019 8:13 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1959 by Stile, posted 08-07-2019 2:10 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1950 of 3207 (860399)
08-07-2019 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1943 by Sarah Bellum
08-07-2019 11:32 AM


Re: Protestant is Evil
Sarah Bellum writes:
You can't seriously be claiming that horoscopes are rational?
I said, "You're still confusing wrong with irrational."
Horoscopes are certainly wrong - i.e. not based on reality. But that does not make the idea irrational. That's a separate issue.
If you want to claim that something is irrational, you have to show how it is irrational. You have to show the errors in reasoning. Showing that the conclusion is true doesn't cut it. Your math teacher requires you to show your work.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1943 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-07-2019 11:32 AM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2437 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-08-2020 9:55 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1951 of 3207 (860400)
08-07-2019 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1947 by Sarah Bellum
08-07-2019 11:37 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:
Your "participation" has mostly been to claim that answers you've been provided haven't been provided.
Anybody who reads the thread can see that that isn't true. You're the one who refuses to answer questions.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1947 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-07-2019 11:37 AM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2436 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-08-2020 9:51 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1952 of 3207 (860401)
08-07-2019 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1948 by Sarah Bellum
08-07-2019 11:38 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:
Yes, people do read these threads. You should try it some time.
You're a fine one to talk. You thought I was a Christian.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1948 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-07-2019 11:38 AM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2435 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-08-2020 9:31 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1953 of 3207 (860402)
08-07-2019 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1949 by Sarah Bellum
08-07-2019 11:40 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:
Why do you expect an answer different from the ones you've already been provided?
I'm underlining the fact that you refuse to answer my question. That question is: What are the LOGICAL errors in the idea of God?
It took you a very long time to repeat the question to me and you still seem reluctant to discuss it.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1949 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-07-2019 11:40 AM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2334 by Sarah Bellum, posted 12-30-2019 2:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1960 of 3207 (860412)
08-07-2019 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1958 by Stile
08-07-2019 2:09 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Stile writes:
Please explain how the search for the North West Passage was rational if there was no link from imagination to reality.
As you said yourself in another post, rational just means logical. What does the logic have to do with a link to reality?
Stile writes:
Did they not know "an unknown amount of ice/islands exists up north?"
Not until they found it. Remember that they searched around the Mississippi River before they moved farther north.
Stile writes:
Did they not know that "previous amount of ice/islands have generally had a path through them, eventually?"
But that isn't true.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1958 by Stile, posted 08-07-2019 2:09 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1964 by Stile, posted 08-07-2019 2:59 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1961 of 3207 (860413)
08-07-2019 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1959 by Stile
08-07-2019 2:10 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Stile writes:
Then stop implying that knowledge is invalid if it's not based on absolutes.
I haven't done any such thing.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1959 by Stile, posted 08-07-2019 2:10 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1965 by Stile, posted 08-07-2019 2:59 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1969 of 3207 (860423)
08-07-2019 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1964 by Stile
08-07-2019 2:59 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Stile writes:
I've said this many times - an imaginary idea can be rational (logical) on it's own.
Tell it to Sarah.
Stile writes:
We know that for things to exist, there is a logical link between the imagination and reality.
Do we?
Stile writes:
So... from previous experience they knew "as long as we sail around long enough - we've always found a way through before."
No. They didn't know that. They sailed all around central North America and found nothing but more central North America. It would have been quite valid to conclude that "probably" (most likely) there was no passage. But they didn't "know" there was no passage.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1964 by Stile, posted 08-07-2019 2:59 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1974 by Stile, posted 08-07-2019 3:37 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1970 of 3207 (860424)
08-07-2019 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1965 by Stile
08-07-2019 2:59 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Stile writes:
Then I'm glad you agree with me completely.
I haven't done any such thing.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1965 by Stile, posted 08-07-2019 2:59 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1975 by Stile, posted 08-07-2019 3:39 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1976 of 3207 (860433)
08-07-2019 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1974 by Stile
08-07-2019 3:37 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Stile writes:
If you don't think so - just name one we know to exist that does not have a link from imagination to reality.
You have already agreed that rational means logical. So why don't you understand that the logic does not depend on the inputs?
Stile writes:
How is it logical to search for something that has no indication it might exist in the first place?
Because the logic has nothing to do with whether it exists or not. There can't be any "indication" that it exists unless you look.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1974 by Stile, posted 08-07-2019 3:37 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1979 by Stile, posted 08-07-2019 3:51 PM ringo has replied

  
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