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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2528 of 3207 (880898)
08-13-2020 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 2527 by Phat
08-13-2020 6:55 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Phat writes:
You have no basis for calling a Creator of all seen and unseen a fictional character.
Sure I do. You yourself consider every concept of God that's different from yours to be fictional. I'm just going one fiction farther than you.
Phat writes:
Except that perhaps He never talked to you to your satisfaction.
He talked/talks to me as much as He talks to you.
Phat writes:
My choice is very specific, justified, and intentional.
Nonsense. You have no rational for picking one myth over another. You don't even know anything about most of them.
Phat writes:
You are picking a fight with every great philosopher whom ever lived.
Don't be silly. Every philosopher who ever lived didn't agree with each other or with you. Your attempt at appeal to authority and/or popularity won't work.
Phat writes:
Your precious evidence will never get you the answer that you truly want...it will only lead to more questions.
There is no "answer that I want". More questions hopefully lead to more understanding. I don't want to stop learning when I have "the answer" like you.
Phat writes:
Chemicals would also be included in the singularity.
"The singularity" is not a thing or a place. It's the condition of the mathematics breaking down.
Phat writes:
A Creator of all seen and unseen would not reside there.
That's an empty claim. It's just an excuse, an attempt to make a distinction between "the chemicals must have come from somewhere" and " God had to come from somewhere".
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
... I insist that a Creator is NOT illogical.
... it appears that you are arguing in support of what you label a fictional character.
Fiction is not necessarily illogical. God and Long John Silver are both fictional but neither is necessarily illogical.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2527 by Phat, posted 08-13-2020 6:55 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2532 by ICANT, posted 08-14-2020 2:26 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2536 of 3207 (880924)
08-14-2020 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 2532 by ICANT
08-14-2020 2:26 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:
Then I assume you know how the universe was created.
Why would you assume that based on what I said?
I said, 'There is no "answer that I want".' How does that suggest that I have an answer?
ICANT writes:
What existed at T=0?
At the present time, there is no way to know anything about T=0. T=0 is not even a concept.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2532 by ICANT, posted 08-14-2020 2:26 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2543 by ICANT, posted 08-15-2020 1:32 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2547 of 3207 (880963)
08-15-2020 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 2543 by ICANT
08-15-2020 1:32 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:
If there was no answer you would want to me would mean you had all the answers there were.
That doesn't make a bit of sense. If there is no answer that I want, that means I don't have a preferred answer.
ICANT writes:
T=0 means exactly what is written. Time does not exist.
T=Time 0=zero time, as none exists.
No.
T=0 is a position on the time line. It is not a quantity of time.
We can not "see" all the way to T=0 or beyond it.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2543 by ICANT, posted 08-15-2020 1:32 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2554 by ICANT, posted 08-15-2020 2:09 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2558 of 3207 (880985)
08-15-2020 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 2554 by ICANT
08-15-2020 2:09 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:
T=0 is not a position on the time line as time does not exist at T=0, therefore there would be no timeline.
As I said, we can not "see" as far back in time as T=0, so you have no bssis for claiming that time "didn't exist". There is no way of knowing anything about T=0.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2554 by ICANT, posted 08-15-2020 2:09 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2560 by ICANT, posted 08-16-2020 12:48 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2562 of 3207 (880996)
08-16-2020 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 2560 by ICANT
08-16-2020 12:48 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:
What part of time does not exist do you not understand?
That is what T=0 represents.
We can not know ANYTHING about T=0. There is no math that can tell us about T=0. T=0 can not "represent" ANYTHING.
"Time does not exist" is a nonsense statement.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2560 by ICANT, posted 08-16-2020 12:48 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2563 by Phat, posted 08-16-2020 10:29 AM ringo has replied
 Message 2575 by ICANT, posted 08-16-2020 4:34 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2568 of 3207 (881013)
08-16-2020 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 2563 by Phat
08-16-2020 10:29 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Phat writes:
It might make more sense after we die.
I doubt that you will magically understand all of the mysteries of physics after you die.
Edited by ringo, : Pselling.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2563 by Phat, posted 08-16-2020 10:29 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2569 by Phat, posted 08-16-2020 3:14 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2570 of 3207 (881017)
08-16-2020 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 2569 by Phat
08-16-2020 3:14 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Phat writes:
We certainly never will no matter how long our species collectively lives.
Do you read my posts at all? I said, "I doubt that you will magically understand all of the mysteries of physics after you die."
What part of after you die did you miss? I was responding to your claim that, "It might make more sense after we die." That's your own phrase, "after we die."
It has nothing, nothing, nothing to do with what we will learn, "no matter how long our species collectively lives."

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2569 by Phat, posted 08-16-2020 3:14 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2571 by Phat, posted 08-16-2020 3:33 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2572 of 3207 (881025)
08-16-2020 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 2571 by Phat
08-16-2020 3:33 PM


Re: After We Die
Phat writes:
Yet I am here to tell you that hooking up ten of the worlds most powerful supercomputers in order to quantify the problem would take virtually an infinite number of years, while God could give you the answer the moment after you died.
That certainly is an empty claim, so why do you waste time with it?
Phat writes:
You bow at the altar of evidence.
You mock evidence. Shame on you. Remember the story of Thomas. Jesus offered him evidence. He didn't expect Thomas or the other disciples to believe without evidence.
Phat writes:
Evidence can only be verified through human wisdom.
Human wisdom is all we've got.
Phat writes:
And human wisdom is never going to replace God.
You have nothing but human wisdom to tell you anything about God. Human wisdom is the ultimate backup.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2571 by Phat, posted 08-16-2020 3:33 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2573 by Phat, posted 08-16-2020 4:00 PM ringo has replied
 Message 2579 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 12:17 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2574 of 3207 (881032)
08-16-2020 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 2573 by Phat
08-16-2020 4:00 PM


Re: After We Die
Phat writes:
When I got saved,it was certainly not due to human wisdom.
Sure it was. It was human (apologist) wisdom that told you you needed to be saved and how you could ne saved.
Phat writes:
Human wisdom may seek favorable sources to "verify" an existing belief, but it can also be used as a tool with which to question oneself.
Yes. You surely use it for the first. You should try using it for the second
Phat writes:
Human wisdom is not always a reliable backup.
I never said it was reliable. I said it was all we have. And it's certainly more reliable than gods.
Phat writes:
Sometimes human wisdom is a source of confusion.
And sometimes that confusion is created deliberately - e.g by the apologists.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2573 by Phat, posted 08-16-2020 4:00 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2577 of 3207 (881038)
08-16-2020 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 2575 by ICANT
08-16-2020 4:34 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:
Is that because you cannot fathom non existence?
"Existence" is not a thing. Non-existence is not a thing.
T=0 is a point in time. It is not a quantity of time. You can not compare time to apples.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2575 by ICANT, posted 08-16-2020 4:34 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2580 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 12:30 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2583 of 3207 (881060)
08-17-2020 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 2579 by ICANT
08-17-2020 12:17 AM


Re: After We Die
ICANT writes:
If there is no God it would be an empty claim as you would just be dead.
Non sequitur.
ICANT writes:
But you want me to accept that the universe just 'is'.
I couldn't care less what you accept.
ICANT writes:
The question is how did it begin to exist. Zero scientific evidence. So the only evidence we have is the Bible.
You have it backwards. The only evidence we have is scientific. There are lots of "holy" books that are every bit as reliable as the Bible and they all disagree so they're not evidence.
ICANT writes:
How many scientific facts would my Bible have to have recorded in it over 2000 years before it was known by science for it to be a reliable book?
Since there are scientific errors on page one, it is not a reliable book.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2579 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 12:17 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2587 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 11:37 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2584 of 3207 (881061)
08-17-2020 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 2580 by ICANT
08-17-2020 12:30 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:
You start with no time and you end up with no time.
You start at a point on the time line and you move forward. You can not remove time like you can remove apples. You can not get back to "no time".

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2580 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 12:30 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2586 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 11:24 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2588 of 3207 (881068)
08-17-2020 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2586 by ICANT
08-17-2020 11:24 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:
I never said anything about removing time.
You compared time to apples and you talked about removing apples until you had zero apples. Clearly that does not work with time.
ICANT writes:
I did say T=0 is not a point on the time line.
And you were wrong.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2586 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 11:24 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2591 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 12:45 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2590 of 3207 (881070)
08-17-2020 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 2587 by ICANT
08-17-2020 11:37 AM


Re: After We Die
ICANT writes:
ringo writes:
There are lots of "holy" books that are every bit as reliable as the Bible and they all disagree so they're not evidence.
Could you present just one.
The Book of the Dead, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Iliad and Odyssey, the Tao Te Ching, the Edda, the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Tantras, the Qur'an, the Talmud, the Midrash, the Zohar, the Book of Mormon, Dianetics... and those are only the ones I've heard of.
ICANT writes:
ringo writes:
Since there are scientific errors on page one, it is not a reliable book.
Could you be very specific and write down each one.
Or at least give me one of those scientific error.
Chapter one, verse two has water before light, verse two has light before sun and moon; verse eleven has plants before sun and moon....
ICANT writes:
I can find translation errors on page one but no scientific error.
You know as little about translation as you do about science, so your opinions on the matter aren't worth much.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2587 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 11:37 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2597 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 1:06 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2593 of 3207 (881075)
08-17-2020 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 2591 by ICANT
08-17-2020 12:45 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:
How can you have a time line unless you have time?
We don't "have" time like we "have" apples.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2591 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 12:45 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2595 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 11:07 AM ringo has replied

  
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