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Author | Topic: I Know That God Does Not Exist | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Sure I do. You yourself consider every concept of God that's different from yours to be fictional. I'm just going one fiction farther than you.
You have no basis for calling a Creator of all seen and unseen a fictional character. Phat writes:
He talked/talks to me as much as He talks to you.
Except that perhaps He never talked to you to your satisfaction. Phat writes:
Nonsense. You have no rational for picking one myth over another. You don't even know anything about most of them.
My choice is very specific, justified, and intentional. Phat writes:
Don't be silly. Every philosopher who ever lived didn't agree with each other or with you. Your attempt at appeal to authority and/or popularity won't work.
You are picking a fight with every great philosopher whom ever lived. Phat writes:
There is no "answer that I want". More questions hopefully lead to more understanding. I don't want to stop learning when I have "the answer" like you.
Your precious evidence will never get you the answer that you truly want...it will only lead to more questions. Phat writes:
"The singularity" is not a thing or a place. It's the condition of the mathematics breaking down.
Chemicals would also be included in the singularity. Phat writes:
That's an empty claim. It's just an excuse, an attempt to make a distinction between "the chemicals must have come from somewhere" and " God had to come from somewhere".
A Creator of all seen and unseen would not reside there. Phat writes:
Fiction is not necessarily illogical. God and Long John Silver are both fictional but neither is necessarily illogical. ringo writes:
... it appears that you are arguing in support of what you label a fictional character. ... I insist that a Creator is NOT illogical."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
Why would you assume that based on what I said? Then I assume you know how the universe was created. I said, 'There is no "answer that I want".' How does that suggest that I have an answer?
ICANT writes:
At the present time, there is no way to know anything about T=0. T=0 is not even a concept. What existed at T=0?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
That doesn't make a bit of sense. If there is no answer that I want, that means I don't have a preferred answer.
If there was no answer you would want to me would mean you had all the answers there were. ICANT writes:
No. T=0 means exactly what is written. Time does not exist. T=Time 0=zero time, as none exists. T=0 is a position on the time line. It is not a quantity of time. We can not "see" all the way to T=0 or beyond it."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
As I said, we can not "see" as far back in time as T=0, so you have no bssis for claiming that time "didn't exist". There is no way of knowing anything about T=0. T=0 is not a position on the time line as time does not exist at T=0, therefore there would be no timeline."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
We can not know ANYTHING about T=0. There is no math that can tell us about T=0. T=0 can not "represent" ANYTHING. What part of time does not exist do you not understand?That is what T=0 represents. "Time does not exist" is a nonsense statement."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I doubt that you will magically understand all of the mysteries of physics after you die. It might make more sense after we die. Edited by ringo, : Pselling."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Do you read my posts at all? I said, "I doubt that you will magically understand all of the mysteries of physics after you die." We certainly never will no matter how long our species collectively lives. What part of after you die did you miss? I was responding to your claim that, "It might make more sense after we die." That's your own phrase, "after we die." It has nothing, nothing, nothing to do with what we will learn, "no matter how long our species collectively lives.""I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That certainly is an empty claim, so why do you waste time with it?
Yet I am here to tell you that hooking up ten of the worlds most powerful supercomputers in order to quantify the problem would take virtually an infinite number of years, while God could give you the answer the moment after you died. Phat writes:
You mock evidence. Shame on you. Remember the story of Thomas. Jesus offered him evidence. He didn't expect Thomas or the other disciples to believe without evidence.
You bow at the altar of evidence. Phat writes:
Human wisdom is all we've got.
Evidence can only be verified through human wisdom. Phat writes:
You have nothing but human wisdom to tell you anything about God. Human wisdom is the ultimate backup. And human wisdom is never going to replace God."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Sure it was. It was human (apologist) wisdom that told you you needed to be saved and how you could ne saved.
When I got saved,it was certainly not due to human wisdom. Phat writes:
Yes. You surely use it for the first. You should try using it for the second
Human wisdom may seek favorable sources to "verify" an existing belief, but it can also be used as a tool with which to question oneself. Phat writes:
I never said it was reliable. I said it was all we have. And it's certainly more reliable than gods.
Human wisdom is not always a reliable backup. Phat writes:
And sometimes that confusion is created deliberately - e.g by the apologists. Sometimes human wisdom is a source of confusion."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
"Existence" is not a thing. Non-existence is not a thing. Is that because you cannot fathom non existence? T=0 is a point in time. It is not a quantity of time. You can not compare time to apples."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
Non sequitur.
If there is no God it would be an empty claim as you would just be dead. ICANT writes:
I couldn't care less what you accept.
But you want me to accept that the universe just 'is'. ICANT writes:
You have it backwards. The only evidence we have is scientific. There are lots of "holy" books that are every bit as reliable as the Bible and they all disagree so they're not evidence.
The question is how did it begin to exist. Zero scientific evidence. So the only evidence we have is the Bible. ICANT writes:
Since there are scientific errors on page one, it is not a reliable book. How many scientific facts would my Bible have to have recorded in it over 2000 years before it was known by science for it to be a reliable book?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
You start at a point on the time line and you move forward. You can not remove time like you can remove apples. You can not get back to "no time". You start with no time and you end up with no time."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
You compared time to apples and you talked about removing apples until you had zero apples. Clearly that does not work with time.
I never said anything about removing time. ICANT writes:
And you were wrong. I did say T=0 is not a point on the time line."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
The Book of the Dead, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Iliad and Odyssey, the Tao Te Ching, the Edda, the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Tantras, the Qur'an, the Talmud, the Midrash, the Zohar, the Book of Mormon, Dianetics... and those are only the ones I've heard of.
ringo writes:
Could you present just one. There are lots of "holy" books that are every bit as reliable as the Bible and they all disagree so they're not evidence. ICANT writes:
Chapter one, verse two has water before light, verse two has light before sun and moon; verse eleven has plants before sun and moon....
ringo writes:
Could you be very specific and write down each one. Since there are scientific errors on page one, it is not a reliable book.Or at least give me one of those scientific error. ICANT writes:
You know as little about translation as you do about science, so your opinions on the matter aren't worth much. I can find translation errors on page one but no scientific error."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
We don't "have" time like we "have" apples. How can you have a time line unless you have time?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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