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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7123
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 496 of 2312 (853834)
06-01-2019 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 495 by ringo
06-01-2019 12:22 PM


Phat writes:

Actually it could be argued that God is the one making the claim. I AM that I Am.

I am Sparticus

In an update about how I know that god does not exist.

My relative was taken from the hospice to A&E late last night because he'd started uncontrollably vomiting blood. His cancer is throughout his abdomen which is filled with tubes and stents draining the by-products of the disease. You can imagine the agony he was in while retching. This lasted for 6 hours. During this the priest was called to deliver last rights but somehow they pulled him round. I doubt he's grateful for that.

He's back in the hospice now still in pain, still dying - just a little faster.

How can you guys believe in a loving god that allows his believers to die slowly like this. Or even at all. You cling onto story book ideas but you look the other way at things that really happen in every minute of every day.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 495 by ringo, posted 06-01-2019 12:22 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 497 by Faith, posted 06-01-2019 7:58 PM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 498 by AZPaul3, posted 06-01-2019 9:41 PM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 504 by Dredge, posted 06-04-2019 3:10 AM Tangle has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33615
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 497 of 2312 (853870)
06-01-2019 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 496 by Tangle
06-01-2019 12:57 PM


… There's nothing "storybook" about Biblical religion, it's pretty stark reality. Disease can be horrific in what it does to us. We suffer in this llfe due to the Fall, brought about by sin, I'm not talking about personal sin, just sin in general; it affects all of us. I do believe that God hears our prayers, however, but I can't vouch for anything that comes through a Catholic priest, sorry. I'll pray that God will ease your relative's pain though.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 496 by Tangle, posted 06-01-2019 12:57 PM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 499 by ringo, posted 06-02-2019 2:37 PM Faith has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4717
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 498 of 2312 (853873)
06-01-2019 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 496 by Tangle
06-01-2019 12:57 PM


Been there. Sorry, my man.

From what you said I assume some kind of assisted suicide is out of the question. I also take it this is in keeping with his expressed will.

I hate to be seen as cheapening human life but in this case I can only hope he passes quickly.

Sorry Tangle.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 496 by Tangle, posted 06-01-2019 12:57 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17509
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 499 of 2312 (853918)
06-02-2019 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 497 by Faith
06-01-2019 7:58 PM


Faith writes:

We suffer in this llfe due to the Fall...


There was no "Fall". Eating the fruit made Adam and Eve more like God. He said so Himself.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 497 by Faith, posted 06-01-2019 7:58 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 500 by Faith, posted 06-02-2019 2:55 PM ringo has responded
 Message 732 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-23-2019 7:02 AM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33615
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 500 of 2312 (853924)
06-02-2019 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 499 by ringo
06-02-2019 2:37 PM


And that WAS the Fall.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 499 by ringo, posted 06-02-2019 2:37 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 501 by ringo, posted 06-02-2019 2:57 PM Faith has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17509
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 501 of 2312 (853925)
06-02-2019 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 500 by Faith
06-02-2019 2:55 PM


Faith writes:

And that WAS the Fall.


But it wasn't a fall.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 500 by Faith, posted 06-02-2019 2:55 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 502 by Faith, posted 06-02-2019 3:50 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33615
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 502 of 2312 (853930)
06-02-2019 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 501 by ringo
06-02-2019 2:57 PM


The Fall it was
Yes it was a fall. It was brought about by disobeying God, and that brought them and all their descendants into sin, under God's curse and subject to a new order of things which brings about disease, suffering and death. And the knowledge of good and evvl we got didn't do us any good. God had to protect us from the tree of llfe because if we ever ate of that in our current condition we'd become evvl llke Satan without any hope of redemption.

I found a discussion of these things at Got Questions but due to a computer glitch that recurs from time to time I lost it and now don't have the energy to go find it again.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 501 by ringo, posted 06-02-2019 2:57 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 503 by ringo, posted 06-02-2019 3:57 PM Faith has not yet responded
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ringo
Member
Posts: 17509
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 503 of 2312 (853931)
06-02-2019 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 502 by Faith
06-02-2019 3:50 PM


Re: The Fall it was
Faith writes:

Yes it was a fall.


You're calling God a liar.

Faith writes:

And the knowledge of good and **** we got didn't do us any good.


Of course it did. It made us more like God. He said so:
quote:
Genesis 3;22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Faith writes:

I found a discussion of these things at Got Questions but due to a glitch that recurs from time to time I lost it and now don't have the energy to go find it again.


You can keep your commentators to yourself anyway.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 502 by Faith, posted 06-02-2019 3:50 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 507 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 10:34 AM ringo has responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1291
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 504 of 2312 (854010)
06-04-2019 3:10 AM
Reply to: Message 496 by Tangle
06-01-2019 12:57 PM


Tangle writes:

How can you guys believe in a loving god that allows his believers to die slowly like this. Or even at all. You cling onto story book ideas but you look the other way at things that really happen in every minute of every day.


Oh, the irony! Atheists are quick to condemn God for all the terrible things in life, but "look the other way" and never think to thank God for all the wonderful things in life. A curious imbalance, I must say.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 496 by Tangle, posted 06-01-2019 12:57 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 506 by Tangle, posted 06-04-2019 3:21 AM Dredge has responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1291
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 505 of 2312 (854011)
06-04-2019 3:14 AM
Reply to: Message 493 by Stile
05-31-2019 11:39 AM


Stile writes:

You are wrong.
I do not need to have died and seen what's on the other side


Er, yes, you do. You can theorise until the cows come home, but until you die, you don't know that God doesn't exist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 493 by Stile, posted 05-31-2019 11:39 AM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 525 by Stile, posted 06-04-2019 3:12 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7123
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 506 of 2312 (854012)
06-04-2019 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 504 by Dredge
06-04-2019 3:10 AM


Dredge writes:

Atheists are quick to condemn God for all the terrible things in life, but "look the other way" and never think to thank God for all the wonderful things in life. A curious imbalance, I must say.

How do you explain a loving god that allows and has created death, disease and suffering?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 504 by Dredge, posted 06-04-2019 3:10 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 508 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 10:43 AM Tangle has responded
 Message 537 by Dredge, posted 06-05-2019 2:49 AM Tangle has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13139
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 507 of 2312 (854030)
06-04-2019 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 503 by ringo
06-02-2019 3:57 PM


The Fall it was & The Rapture it shall be
To be fair, however...you (ringo) are looking at the Bible from a critical thinking POV which mainstream apologetics and Christianity does not ascribe to. We can either conclude that they are willfully deceived and have an "agenda" (which is nothing more than telling the world that God has a plan and that Jesus is alive) or we can listen to your unenlightened common sense nonsense.

You can call me WRONG and have trumped up evidence to back the accusation up, but once the reality manifests on this planet...likely within a decade or so, global hatred of religions and specifically Christianity will increase and we will all be branded as delusional fantasy-driven fanatics out of touch with the secular status quo supported by logic, reason, and reality. It will be quite a show! See you on the other side...


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 503 by ringo, posted 06-02-2019 3:57 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 512 by ringo, posted 06-04-2019 12:07 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13139
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 508 of 2312 (854031)
06-04-2019 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 506 by Tangle
06-04-2019 3:21 AM


The Fall it was & The Rapture it shall be
Tangle, to Dredge writes:

How do you explain a loving god that allows and has created death, disease, and suffering?

I'll have a go at it. Granted I don't fully understand the reason for all of this unimaginable belief, but I do believe that something crazy is destined to happen...

God is unconcerned with the temporal death of the moment. We are nothing but clay to Him. The fact that a billion people starve to death is on us rather than on Him since it is not His job to play rescuer genie to a planet of bleeding heart whiners. We were and are given the basic choice to trust Him or not...and evidently many of you secular humanist educated liberal whiners(sorry I'm on a rant ) accuse this hypothetical God of being unloving because He has the audacity to ask you to trust in His eternal plan and not run around doing what YOU think He has an obligation to do to "serve and protect" existing humanity with all of its own problems. Granted that Stile has some good arguments for this God not existing. Granted there is no objective evidence.

Perhaps God decreed that it must be that way because objective evidence would have led to a secular humanist minded unregenerated population to accept Him yet insist upon their own freedom to question and to doubt to remain in force.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 506 by Tangle, posted 06-04-2019 3:21 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 509 by Theodoric, posted 06-04-2019 10:49 AM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 529 by Tangle, posted 06-04-2019 4:12 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 530 by Faith, posted 06-04-2019 4:30 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6782
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(3)
Message 509 of 2312 (854032)
06-04-2019 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 508 by Thugpreacha
06-04-2019 10:43 AM


Re: The Fall it was & The Rapture it shall be
Maybe you should start your own website and preach to your hearts content.
It is a bit unseemly for you to turn good discussions into a platform for your dogmatic preaching.
Also, this is would be a lot like going before a judge that starts his court with religiosity. I no longer trust your ability to be an objective moderator. We have already seen problems with that.
Message 8

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 508 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 10:43 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 511 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 10:57 AM Theodoric has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13139
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 510 of 2312 (854033)
06-04-2019 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 502 by Faith
06-02-2019 3:50 PM


Re: The Fall it was
Faith writes:

I found a discussion of these things at Got Questions but due to a computer glitch that recurs from time to time I lost it and now don't have the energy to go find it again.

We need to pray for you to get your energy back. The Rapture may happen in your lifetime. I suppose if it did, you could get "re-energized" and fixed in Heaven, but stop and think for a moment the implications of what in fact would occur if the Bible is the truth and literal.

First, there will come a point in the near future when the occult will be fully revealed to the planet. All things hidden shall be revealed. The supernatural will become undeniable, in other words. Even science will know that something is amiss, though they likely will manifest as reprobates due to the fact that God will have foreknown all of those who were destined to believe and accept Him and all of those who were foreknown to reject and refuse Him. It will be like Judas. Once Judas was exposed as the bad apple in the bunch, he went and did his sin. Similarly...once society globally becomes aware of the reality of a supernatural realm (both good and bad) there will be a short period of a final opportunity to choose to accept Jesus Christ or deny Him. Then your rapture quite likely will occur, at which point the rest of society will fully manifest the intrinsic evil which they all along denied along with Jesus Christ. The end will then come quickly.

Let the skeptics and critics brand me now as one of the loons who has fully lost my mind!


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 502 by Faith, posted 06-02-2019 3:50 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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