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Author | Topic: I Know That God Does Not Exist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member (Idle past 103 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
PaulK writes:
Every member of the Catholic clergy, on the other hand, must take a vow of poverty. Not all that giving is good.The preachers getting rich from poor Americans (BBC) Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Even the village idiot knows life cannot come naturally from inanimate matter. So tell us, Village Idiot, how you know it didn't.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Every member of the Catholic clergy, on the other hand, must take a vow of poverty. Just like their vow of chastity. Were you an alter boy?Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 626 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
I've given examples of how extraordinarily complex results can come from quite simple basic stuff. Do you think those examples are fantasies?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: Which means that the Church nominally owns the wealth and the clergy - at least those with the right position - get to enjoy it. And I bet that a lot of the Televangelists have a similar deal, for tax purposes if nothing else.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Sarah Bellum writes: I've already responded to that more than once in this thread. For that matter, even if that was true then so what? But then you must also believe that your god is itself the result of some intelligent agency.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
GDR, replying to AZPaul3 writes:
I don't accept that I wouldn't be able to accept the atheistic position. I am frankly, while acknowledging that I could be wrong, saying that to me the atheistic position makes no sense. I remember one of the outspoken atheists stating that he simply didn't like the idea of God. (Dawkins I think.)I suggest that maybe you are unable to overcome your emotional make up and hold your position because you can't accept the other possibility.AZPaul3 writes: The bible clearly says that not everyone will accept the belief--in fact, a minority will accept the belief and a majority will reject it or be uninfluenced nor persuaded by it. I cannot speak for anyone else but myself, but I changed abruptly and continually over the years. Leprechauns and Big Foots simply dont have the same effect on people. There are few if any convinced followers of either...apart from an odd offshoot such as the flat earth society. Christianity alone has many millions of people who can vouch for a spiritual epiphany and awareness of God that simply was not there before.
The other argument to be made is that the wholesale lack of even the most minimal evidence in favor of a god proposal, after thousands of years and so many brains and so much activity in looking for any at all, has become its own set of data points against the proposal. GDR,commenting about ringo writes: ringo has a valid argument that he desperately needed to grab. Perhaps he figures that if God is unnecessary his own personal beliefs are thus logical. I cant pretend to know how any of you think or how you process belief---but it seems that evidence is required before you will believe anything. Not a bad survival trait, but a stumbling block on the path to Christ. You claim that you have evidence that we got from there to here through mindless random processes without any intelligent involvement.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Son Goku Inactive Member
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I still don't see how this things are simple or basic. They all seem as complex if not more so than the level above them.
As I said protons, neutrons and electrons require infinite dimensional mathematical structures to describe and even computing their properties approximately is beyond the reach of networked supercomputers. Beyond this we know the layer beneath them is even more complex. I still don't get the origin of this "simple basic stuff" phrase. The universe doesn't operate like Conway's Game of Life where you get complexity from quite simple basics.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Touche!
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Even within the church, a minority are actually honorable. This is likely true in any group that you examine sociologically.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Christianity alone has many millions of people who can vouch for a spiritual epiphany and awareness of God that simply was not there before. Muslims, Hindus, Taoists etc etc would disagree. They, in their own many millions, think your spiritual epiphany and awareness of your god is both false and heretical. Reality is not a popularity contest. It doesn't care how many of you are wrong.
I cant pretend to know how any of you think or how you process belief---but it seems that evidence is required before you will believe anything. Not a bad survival trait, but a stumbling block on the path to Christ. Which means your path to christ is a path of ignorance. Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I had evidence. It was simply subjective. I alone experienced it. Experience can never be objective.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined:
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Thugpreaca writes: So, you mean you had unreliable "evidence". That's the same as having no evidence at all. I had evidence. It was simply subjective. I alone experienced it. Experience can never be objective. Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Im not sure I understand. Is evidence only objective or "reliable" if everyone sees it? The Bible speaks of two distinct groups of people. The many and the few.
My argument is basically that the "evidence" is objective for the few and unreliable (and vacuous) for the many. Just because most people don't get it does not mkean that its unreliable---if anything it means that most people are too dense to get it. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined:
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Thugpreacha writes: Nope. It's only reliable if everyone can investigate it. Im not sure I understand. Is evidence only objective or "reliable" if everyone sees it? Edited by Pressie, : No reason given. Edited by Pressie, : No reason given. Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
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