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Author | Topic: I Know That God Does Not Exist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Glad you edited that. Everyone can and should investigate a claim, but the claim itself states that few will find it.(or agree with the claim)
Meanwhile in Washington DC on the 4th of July, Trump spoke and seemed to voice the common goal of the US population:quote:Two other notable themes of the Bible are the fact that the majority prefers a popular pardon as opposed to pardoning Jesus (or Christ as living philosophy in today's world). The Christian view is strongest when a minority embrace it and live it. Too many of todays Christians are posers and wannabe believers...they want a God who will make them rich, but do not want to die to themselves and actually take up Larosse and follow Him (as jar would say) Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined:
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You don't make any sense. If it doesn't make sense, it probably is untrue.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9199 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Yeah the Pope barely scrapes by. Those Cardinals can barely get to and from work or get a healthy meal.
I have known a fair amount of priests in my life. They all lived in very nice homes and drove very nice vehicles. When they did have to travel they traveled first class. Yes they had very little personal assets but that is much different than a vow of poverty. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 624 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
You're missing the point. It's not the origin of your god that's the issue, it's the fact that you believe that complexity and intelligence cannot develop naturally. So you believe that intelligence cannot develop without there being intelligence in the first place. That gives a contradiction!
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Sarah Bellum writes: Two things then. Firstly, It is my subjective belief that God is not restricted to linear time as we are. Science feels free to speculate about other dimensions of time. You're missing the point. It's not the origin of your god that's the issue, it's the fact that you believe that complexity and intelligence cannot develop naturally. So you believe that intelligence cannot develop without there being intelligence in the first place. That gives a contradiction! Secondly even if the intelligence that created us did require an intelligent origin then it doesn't negate the idea of us being created by that intelligence. However, I don't believe that to be the case, and I realize it brings up the turtles all the way down argument, I still maintain that it raises the same issue for there being nothing but natural processes. What process was responsible for evolution and what process was responsible for that process and again it's turtles all the way down.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 624 days) Posts: 826 Joined:
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Two things then. First, "not restricted to linear time" sounds like something out of C. S. Lewis or A. A. Attanasio, an issue of belief or fantasy rather than rational thought (at least until science is doing more than "speculating")
Second, new living organisms have been observed to evolve without intelligent intervention. Why should it have been different in the past?
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Sarah Bellum writes: That is simply part of the evolutionary process. How did the evolutionary process start: what was the process for the first cell; how about consciousness etc. Second, new living organisms have been observed to evolve without intelligent intervention. Why should it have been different in the past?He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
"Root causes" is a red herring. If you propose pre-existing intelligence as a root cause of processes, you still don't know the root cause of the root cause.
It is true that we only have objective knowledge of natural processes but that tells us nothing about the root cause of natural processes regardless of how many stages we want to back. GDR writes:
"We can not find any sign of God," is not a positive claim. It can be backed by lack of evidence.
Regardless of which option we choose we can be accused of making a positive claim on lack of evidence. GDR writes:
"Evidence for why" is another red herring. It gets you nowhere.
What is the evidence for the why these natural processes exist? GDR writes:
We have evidence that it could have happened that way. You claim that you have evidence that we got from there to here through mindless random processes without any intelligent involvement.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
You can't separate good done through taxes from good done through other means. We all pay taxes to the same degree depending on income. The net difference is what we do with our after tax income.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Indeed it is. Maybe that's a clue that you shouldn't be on the path to Christ. ... it seems that evidence is required before you will believe anything. Not a bad survival trait, but a stumbling block on the path to Christ.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You probably don't want to go down the "few are chosen" road unless you're ready to admit that the many are going to roast in Hell. The Bible speaks of two distinct groups of people. The many and the few.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 624 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
There is no intelligent agency carving those beautiful snowflakes from ice crystals, why should there be an intelligent agency carving out the laws of chemistry and physics that produce those snowflakes?
Humans have always looked at the world and seen an intelligent agency where there really was none, from Hephaestus as the reason for volcanoes belching lava and fire to modern-day conspiracy theories. The deeper we look, year after year, the more we find natural origins as answers to scientific questions. Hypothesizing an intelligent agency somewhere "at the bottom of all of this" doesn't lead to anything that can be objectively checked, just an ever-receding nebulous object of faith.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9199 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Majick!
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
How did the evolutionary process start: what was the process for the first cell; how about consciousness etc.
You are playing at extremely simple minded and poor theology. God of the gaps has been used to death over the centuries and always ends up looking foolish. Bad choice of argument according to both theologians and scientists.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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You are playing at extremely simple minded and poor theology. God of the gaps has been used to death over the centuries and always ends up looking foolish. Bad choice of argument according to both theologians and scientists. Wikipedia's God of the gaps article presents the idea as being opposed by theologians and having been invented by theologians to serve explicitly as the bad example that Christians must avoid. IOW, GotG was invented by theologians in order to describe and criticize really bad ideas that constitute bad theology. Some quotes from that page (for those who insist on being spoon-fed):
quote: GotGs is bad and stoopid theology that I see being used by too many creationists.
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