EvC Forum: The Right Side of the News

It was clearly stated that the policy against indicting a sitting President had absolutely no part in the conclusions of the report.

Where? Show us! Quote directly from Mueller's Report where he made any such statement! Only use primary sources (eg, Mueller's Report); do not use secondary sources (eg, Fakes and Friends, fake-news mongers like Hannity, Carlson, Limbaugh, Alex Jones)!

Show us the quote. We show you ours.

As for whether the OLC "cannot indict a sitting president" played any role in the report, from INTRODUCTION TO VOLUME II pages 1-2 (pp 213-214 in the searchable PDF):

quote:
We first describe the considerations that guided our obstruction-of-justice investigation, and then provide an overview of this Volume:

First, a traditional prosecution or declination decision entails a binary determination to initiate or decline a prosecution, but we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment. The Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) has issued an opinion finding that "the indictment or criminal prosecution of a sitting President would impermissibly undermine the capacity of the executive branch to perform its constitutionally assigned functions" in violation of "the constitutional separation of powers." Given the role of the Special Counsel as an attorney in the Department of Justice and the framework of the Special Counsel regulations , see 28 U.S.C. 515; 28 C.F.R. 600.7(a), this Office accepted OLC's legal conclusion for the purpose of exercising prosecutorial jurisdiction. And apart from OLC's constitutional view, we recognized that a federal criminal accusation against a sitting President would place burdens on the President's capacity to govern and potentially preempt constitutional processes for addressing presidential misconduct.

Second, while the OLC opinion concludes that a sitting President may not be prosecuted, it recognizes that a criminal investigation during the President's term is permissible. The OLC opinion also recognizes that a President does not have immunity after he leaves office. And if individuals other than the President committed an obstruction offense, they may be prosecuted at this time. Given those considerations, the facts known to us, and the strong public interest in safeguarding the integrity of the criminal justice system , we conducted a thorough factual investigation in order to preserve the evidence when memories were fresh and documentary materials were available.

Third, we considered whether to evaluate the conduct we investigated under the Justice Manual standards governing prosecution and declination decisions, but we determined not to apply an approach that could potentially result in a judgment that the President committed crimes. The threshold step under the Justice Manual standards is to assess whether a person's conduct "constitutes a federal offense." U.S. Dep't of Justice, Justice Manual 9-27.220 (2018) (Justice Manual). Fairness concerns counseled against potentially reaching that judgment when no charges can be brought. The ordinary means for an individual to respond to an accusation is through a speedy and public trial, with all the procedural protections that surround a criminal case. An individual who believes he was wrongly accused can use that process to seek to clear his name. In contrast , a prosecutor's judgment that crimes were committed, but that no charges will be brought , affords no such adversarial opportunity for public name-clearing before an impartial adjudicator.

The concerns about the fairness of such a determination would be heightened in the case of a sitting President, where a federal prosecutor's accusation of a crime, even in an internal report, could carry consequences that extend beyond the realm of criminal justice. OLC noted similar concerns about sealed indictments. Even if an indictment were sealed during the President's term, OLC reasoned, "it would be very difficult to preserve [an indictment 's] secrecy, " and if an indictment became public, "[t]he stigma and opprobrium" could imperil the President's ability to govern." Although a prosecutor's internal report would not represent a formal public accusation akin to an indictment, the possibility of the report 's public disclosure and the absence of a neutral adjudicatory forum to review its findings counseled against potentially determining "that the person's conduct constitutes a federal offense ." Justice Manual 9-27.220.

Fourth, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice , we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards , however , we are unable to reach that judgment. The evidence we obtained about the President 's actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.

So contrary to your false statement, Mueller clearly states that OLC policy played a direct role in determining how he would organize the investigation and what kinds of conclusions he could reach, namely actual defined crimes (for which collusion does not qualify nor is it defined) such as criminal conspiracy (which requires a provable explicit agreement between the conspirators).

If there had been guilt the report would have reported it in any case.

First, the OLC policy prevented Mueller from being able to indict a sitting President; rather that is the authority and duty of Congress.

Second, while Mueller could not indict Trump because of a purely internal policy
and would not accuse Trump (as per the considerations quoted above) because Trump would have no recourse available to him to clear himself (only a trial could do that), he still could have exonerated Trump. Mueller very explicitly did not exonerate Trump!

The conclusion of EXECUTIVE SUMMARY TO VOLUME II, page 8 (page 220 in the PDF):

quote:
CONCLUSION

Because we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment , we did not draw ultimate conclusions about the President 's conduct. The evidence we obtained about the President's actions and intent presents difficult issues that would need to be resolved if we were making a traditional prosecutorial judgment. At the same time, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, we are unable to reach that judgment. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.

That last sentence echos Mueller's fourth consideration back on page 3 (page 214 of the PDF):

quote:
Fourth, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice , we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards , however , we are unable to reach that judgment. The evidence we obtained about the President 's actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.

Instead it found that Trump and his campaign people did NOT do anything whatever to "collude" with Russians, ...

Completely and utterly false! Mueller's Report is filled with many detailed examples of collusion between Trump's people (including family members). For example, this list comes directly from the Table of Contents of Volume I (pp ii-iv; pp 4-6 in the PDF):

quote:
IV. RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT LINKS To AND CONTACTS WITH THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN ................ 66
A. Campaign Period (September 2015 - November 8, 2016) ......................................... 66
1. Trump Tower Moscow Project .................................. ........................... ............ .... 67
a. Trump Tower Moscow Venture with the Crocus Group (2013 -2014) ............ 67
b. Communications with LC. Expert Investment Company and Giorgi
Rtskhiladze (Summer and Fall 2015) ............................................................ 69
c. Letter of Intent and Contacts to Russian Government (October 2015-
January 2016) ................................................................................................ 70
i. Trump Signs the Letter of Intent on behalf of the Trump Organization .... 70
ii. Post-LOI Contacts with Individuals in Russia ......................................... 72
d. Discussions about Russia Travel by Michael Cohen or Candidate Trump
(December 2015-June 2016) ........................ .............. ............. ...................... 76
i. Sater's Overtures to Cohen to Travel to Russia ........................................ 76
ii. Candidate Trump's Opportunities to Travel to Russia ............................ 78
2. George Papadopoulos ................................................................................ ........... 80
a. Origins of Campaign Work .............. ................................................................ 81
b. Initial Russia-Related Contacts ....................................... ................................. 82
c. March 31 Foreign Policy Team Meeting ......................................................... 85
d. George Papadopoulos Learns That Russia Has "Dirt" in the Form of
Clinton Emails ............. ................................... ........... ............ ........................ 86
e. Russia-Related Communications With The Campaign .................................... 89
f. Trump Campaign Knowledge of "Dirt" ........................................................... 93
g. Additional George Papadopoulos Contact.. .................... ................................. 94
3. Carter Page ........................................ ................................. ................................... 9 5
a. Background ...................................................................................................... 96
b. Origins of and Early Campaign Work ............................................................. 97
c. Carter Page's July 2016 Trip To Moscow ..................................................... ... 98
d. Later Campaign Work and Removal from the Campaign ............................ . 102
4. Dimitri Simes and the Center for the National Interest ...................................... 103
a. CNI and Dimitri Simes Connect with the Trump Campaign ................... ...... 103
b. National Interest Hosts a Foreign Policy Speech at the Mayflower Hotel
........... ..................................... ................................................. ................... . 105
c. Jeff Sessions's Post-Speech Interactions with CNI ....................................... 107
d. Jared Kushner' s Continuing Contacts with Simes ......................................... 108
5. June 9, 2016 Meeting at Trump Tower ........... .................... ...... , ......................... 110
a. Setting Up the June 9 Meeting ....................................................................... 110
i. Outreach to Donald Trump Jr .................................................................. 110
ii. Awareness of the Meeting Within the Campaign ........................ ........... 114
b. The Events of June 9 , 2016 ............................ .................... ................. ........... 116
i. Arrangements for the Meeting ................................................................ 116
ii. Conduct of the Meeting ............... ................................... ........................ 117
c. Post-June 9 Events ................................................................. ........................ 120
6. Events at the Republican National Convention .................................................. 123
a. Ambassador Kislyak's Encounters with Senator Sessions and J.D.
Gordon the Week of the RNC ..................................................................... 123
b. Change to Republican Party Platform ............................................................ 124
7. Post-Convention Contacts with Kislyak ................................ : .............. .............. 127
a. Ambassador Kislyak Invites J.D. Gordon to Breakfast at the
Ambassador's Residence ........................... ................ ......................... ......... 127
b. Senator Sessions's September 2016 Meeting with Ambassador Kislyak ...... 127
8. Paul Manafort .............. .................... ........................................................... ......... 129
a. Paul Manafort' s Ties to Russia and Ukraine .................................................. 131
1. Oleg Deripaska Consulting Work ......................................................... 131
11. Political Consulting Work ..................................................................... 132
iii. Konstantin Kilimnik ........................ ..................................................... . 132
b. Contacts during Paul Manafort's Time with the Trump Campaign .............. 134
i. Paul Manafort Joins the Campaign ......................................................... 134
ii. Paul Manafort's Campaign-Period Contacts .............................. ............ 135
iii. Paul Manafort's Two Campaign-Period Meetings with Konstantin
Kilimnik in the United States .............................. .................................. 138
c. Post-Resignation Activities ............................................................................ 141

B. Post-Election and Transition-Period Contacts .......................................................... 144
1. Immediate Post-Election Activity ....................................................................... 144
a. Outreach from the Russian Government.. ................................................... ... 145
b. High-Level Encouragement of Contacts through Alternative Channels ....... 146
2. Kirill Dmitriev's Transition-Era Outreach to the Incoming Administration ...... 147
a. Background .................... ................ ........................................ ........................ 14 7
b. Kirill Dmitriev's Post-Election Contacts With the Incoming
Administration .............. ............... .......................................... ...................... 149
c. Erik Prince and Kirill Dmitriev Meet in the Seychelles ................................ 151
i. George Nader and Erik Prince Arrange Seychelles Meeting with
Dmitriev .................................................. ................................ ............... 151
11. The Seychelles Meetings .............. ........................................... ............... 153
iii. Erik Prince's Meeting with Steve Bannon after the Seychelles Trip .... 155
d. Kirill Dmitriev's Post-Election Contact with Rick Gerson Regarding
U .S.-Russia Relations ...................... ............................................................ 156
3. Ambassador Kislyak's Meeting with Jared Kushner and Michael Flynn in
Trump Tower Following the Election ................................................................. 159
4. Jared Kushner' s Meeting with Sergey Gorkov ...................................... ............. 161
5. Petr Aven' s Outreach Efforts to the Transition Team ........................................ 163
6. Carter Page Contact with Deputy Prime Minister Arkady Dvorkovich ............. 166
7. Contacts With and Through Michael T. Flynn ....... .................... ................ ........ 167
a. United Nations Vote on Israeli Settlements .............................. ...... ............... 167
b. U.S. Sanctions Against Russia ............ ....................... .................................... 168

That is a helluva lot of collusion! Too bad it's not a crime, though it still is an impeachable offense, as is the cover-up of collusion with a hostile foreign power.

... , and kept the question of obstruction of justice wide open since he had no cause to accuse Trump of that either.

Again, Mueller lists many instances of obstruction committed by Trump. The only reasons for not officially accusing Trump are given in the four considerations in Volume II, quoted above. Mueller did not have the authority to indict Trump for obstruction, but Congress does have that authority as well as the Constitutional duty.

Extracting from EXECUTIVE SUMMARY TO VOLUME II (pp 3-6; PDF pp 215-218) with the body of the paragraphs left out:

quote:
FACTUAL RESULTS OF THE OBSTRUCTION INVESTIGATION

The key issues and events we examined include the following:

The Campaign's response to reports about Russian support for Trump. ...

The President's reaction to the continuing Russia investigation. ...

The President's termination of Comey. ...

The appointment of a Special Counsel and efforts to remove him. ...

Efforts to curtail the Special Counsel's investigation. ...

Efforts to prevent public disclosure of evidence. ...

Further efforts to have the Attorney General take control of the investigation. ...

Efforts to have McGahn deny that the President had ordered him to have the Special
Counsel removed. ...

Conduct towards Flynn, Manafort, {name or names redacted, HARM TO ONGOING MATTER} ...

Conduct involving Michael Cohen. ...

That's a helluva lot of very specific "no causes".

Again, Mueller did not have the authority to indict or accuse Trump of obstruction of justice. All he could (and did) do is to list Trump's acts and leave it to Congress to act upon it.

Everything else is empty threats, gossip, hot air.

Yes, that is all that you and your Fake News pocket universe have.

Edited by dwise1, : corrected PDF page number

Edited by dwise1, : Removed duplicate qs block
Replaced "right" with "authority"

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