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Author | Topic: The Trump Presidency | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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ICANT writes: That should apply to those breaking in line to get into our country. We have people that have been waiting years to get into our country the proper way. But you and others think we should allow anybody that can sneak into our country without Our permission should be welcomed with open arms. I don't condone illegal immigration. I also don't condone policies that would force illegal immigrants to die on the doorsteps of emergency rooms.
Yes I know a country you can not get into without their permission. In fact if you go on a vacation there and decided you want to extend your stay you had better go to the immigration office and get an extension which you have to pay for. If you just overstay the day after you were supposed to leave an immigration officer will find you and you had better be in the hospital or you will be on the next plane leaving the country. The very ability to overstay a visa means they have no borders, according to your logic.
So you are OK with the lying to the Fisa Court to get a search warrant to spy on American citizens. I am not OK with people pushing completely debunked conspiracy theories, like you are doing.
The first paragraph is talking about the 2016 so called Russian interference and Hillary's email server. Yes, a completely debunked conspiracy theory that Trump wants circulated for political purposes. Our intelligence services know its an unfounded and false conspiracy theory, and the Ukranians know it too. So what Trump is really asking is for the Ukranians to make shit up, and for political purposes. This is asking a foreign country to interfere in our elections.
The second paragraph is talking about a brag that Joe Biden made on national tv about giving Ukraine 6 hours to fire a prosecutor or they would not get a billion+ dollars in aid. The prosecutor that took his place settled the case that was being prosecuted for a fine of a few million dollars. The company was one Hunter Biden was on the board of directors. Trump is asking for the Ukranians to invent an investigation for political purposes. That's what's wrong. Everyone in the sane part of the world knows that Biden did nothing wrong.
They why did he invite Nancy Pelosi to call a vote in the House to begin a legal impeachment process? Where in the US Constitution does it require a vote in the House to start an impeachment inquiry? She isn't holding the vote because she doesn't have to.
That is not the rhetoric I hear coming from our democratic hopefuls that are running for president. Then give us some direct quotes, with context.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
ICANT writes: Could it be that he won an election that he was supposed to lose by 11 points as predicted on election day? That is definitely not the problem. None of us have a problem with fair elections. I never liked George W. Bush, but I never would have supported impeachment proceedings against him. This isn't a Dem v. Rep thing. This is about corruption and incompetence at the top of the Executive branch. The man isn't fit for office and is an ongoing threat to our national security, regardless of what party he is from.
If the democrats continue down the path they have chosen I am afraid that they are going to lose the House giving the republicans a majority in the House. There are times when doing the right thing requires sacrifice. At least Democrats are able to put their country ahead of their party. We will see if Republicans are able to do that, too. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
jar writes: He is quite simply a boor. I could accept a boor who was competent and wasn't corrupt.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Percy writes: Much of the interview was evasive like this. I don't know why Pompeo agreed to be on the show if he wasn't prepared to answer most questions. I wish George Orwell was still alive. That would have made for an interesting interview.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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JonF writes: Pelosi announces vote on moving impeachment proceedings to the public phase Republicans are about to become the dog that catches the car.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
ICANT writes: Can you imagine what might happen if the upcoming election is like the one in the impeachment of Clinton during his presidency. What if the democrats lose the majorty in the House and the republicans gain a super majority in the Senate? I would not like to see such an occurrence as it could lead to devastating results. Again, there are times when you need to put country before party. This is one of those times. When a US President openly abuses his office and threatens national security in the name of his own personal goals then he must be held accountable, especially when that same US President demonstrates that he doesn't understand why those things are wrong. In fact, Trump knows so little about morality and ethics that he committed the same crime right in front of the camera when he asked China to investigate his political rivals. Someone has to be the adult in the room, and it appears to be the Democrats at the moment.
If the house were to recommend impeaching Trump today the Senate would never convict him (that takes 67 votes) so why waste the time and run the risk of losing the majority in the house? Because it is the right thing to do.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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ICANT writes: By doing what the democrats are doing they are running the same risk that the republicans did with the Clinton impeachment. They are weighing that risk against the risks the President poses to national security and our sovereignty as a country. Right now, they are putting country ahead of party.
The house has already had 3 votes in the full house on an impeachment inquiry and they all failed. These were before the Ukraine scandal erupted.
If the 4th vote Thursday is successful the impeachment will still be ongoing during the up coming election. Doubtful. Many think Articles of Impeachment will be sent over to the Senate before New Year's. The simplicity of the case will make for a short trial. Senator's already know almost everything they need to know which is Trump withheld aid and other support for Ukraine in exchange for investigations into his political rivals. They will have to decide if this is something a President should be allowed to do.
There are 46 no votes already committed to in the Senate. If all the other republicans voted to impeach that would only be 64 votes to impeach which would be 2 votes short. Which makes the whole exercise of impeachment a waste of time. It will still be up to the voter's in 369 days. I disagree. A no vote on removal from office will be used as a beating stick against Republicans. It will demonstrate that those Republicans put their party ahead of Americans.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
ICANT writes: What scandal are you talking about? The scandal where Trump conditioned military aid on investigations into his political opponents. In fact, just asking Ukraine to dig up dirt on his political opponents is a scandal in itself.
The one where Vice President Biden gave the Ukraine 6 hours to fire a prosecutor or they was not going to get the billion dollars of aid. That prosecutor just happened to be investigating a company that his son Hunter Biden sat on the board. No that was OK. But that is exactly what everyone is saying Trump did. Trump did not ask Ukraine to fire a corrupt prosecutor, and Trump's actions did not have bipartisan support in Congress nor the support of our allies. Trump also ran this outside of normal channels, and tried to hide it. They aren't the same.
The first thing they have to do is find an impeachable offense. They've already found two: abuse of power and obstruction of congress.
Was you around when Newt lost the house over the Clinton impeachment? If you don't know history it will repeat itself. I know history. Do you? What was Clinton's approval rating at the time of his impeachment trial? What did public support for Clinton's removal look like, and how does it compare to now? Edited by Taq, : No reason given. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
ICANT writes: So those senators have the same information that you have and have made the determination that there is no impeachable offense. Do you think it is ok for any president to withhold military aid from a foreign country in exchange for help with their personal political campaign?
Could you name just one impeachable offense? 1. Soliciting campaign help from a foreign power using tax payer dollars and the power of the presidency. 2. Refusing subpoenas which is obstruction of congress, a charge that Nixon was also accused of.
Hillary and the DNC bought and paid for the phony Russian dossier to interfere with the 2016 election, not Trump. Yes, they paid a private company which is entirely legal. It is illegal to solicit campaign help from foreign governments, especially when you are a government official and using tax payer dollars as leverage.
If no one in the Ukraine government knew anything about money being withheld for any reason and Zelinsky said he did not feel pressured in any way where in the conversation is there an impeachable offense? Yes. Soliciting campaign help from foreign powers is illegal whether they pressure them or not. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
ICANT writes: So a bunch of crooks wanted the prosecutor fired. False. Congress isn't a bunch of crooks, nor are the governments of the G7 and our other allies. Biden was serving our national interests by asking Ukraine to fire Shokin. Trump asking Ukraine to dig up dirt on Biden served no national interests, and only benefited his personal political campaign. That's the difference.
Nothing changes the fact that Hunter Biden was a board member of a company that was under investigation at the time. That is irrelevant since Shokin was fired for cause, and asking for his removal served our national interests and the interests of our allies.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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ICANT writes: Where is any such condition placed on military aid, in the transcript? You do realize that there is more than just the transcript, right?
quote: Where in the transcript did Trump ask Zelinsky to dig up dirt on his political opponents? Here:
quote: Since Trump released the transcript after obtaining Zelinsky's permission, where did he try to hide anything? That would be before the release of the transcript. Trump is also refusing to comply with subpoenas.
What specific charge of abuse of power are you referring too? Using the power of the presidency to solicit campaign help from foreign powers. Conditioning military aid on campaign help from a foreign government.
What obstruction of congress are you talking about? The refusal to comply with subpoenas from congress.
What does approval rating have to do with whether a person has committed a crime or not committed a crime? You are talking about the political fallout, not legality. Obviously, if Trump's removal has public support then Democrats won't be facing the same thing the Republicans did when they didn't have public support for Clinton's removal.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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ICANT writes: They go to Washington as poor folks, or middle class folks and leave rich that does not compute as being squeaky clean. I don't trust any politician. Doesn't change the fact that Biden has the support of Congress and our allies when he pushed for the firing of Shokin.
Shokin said in a statement under oath he was asked to resign for the good of the country as Biden was withholding 1 billion aid until he was fired. "I don't believe anything I read in the news or hear, and very little of what I see. I am a total skeptic."--ICANT
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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RAZD writes: Does not change the fact that Trump was looking for US internal election assistance from a foreign country in violation of federal election law. Biden was not doing that no matter how the GOPers spin it. I think it is helpful to contrast what Trump has done with legal diplomatic actions that were in the national interest. Hopefully they can learn by example.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Yovanovitch and McKinley have the trascripts of their testimony released:
Impeachment inquiry: Committees release first transcripts of closed-door testimony Time to throw the popcorn in the microwave.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
AZPaul3 writes: First Amendment allows all Americans to lie through our teeth. There are also exceptions for libel and slander. Interestingly, there is a woman suing Trump for defamation because he accused her of lying when she said that Trump sexually assaulted her.
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