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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 3826 of 5796 (868399)
12-11-2019 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 3775 by Hyroglyphx
12-09-2019 11:59 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
And the total population of Jews in America is not even 2% yet somehow manage to retain some of the highest positions of power in sports, entertainment, banking, etc. Its a case of nepotism. Is there a "gay mafia," as I've heard it called, operating in a similar nepotistic fashion? Probably to some extent but how is it different than any other form of nepotism? Everyone in Trump's inner circle is only there because of nepotism... but, hey, that's not really the same thing cuz Marc says so.
Jews have achieved those positions to a disproportionate percentage of their population is because they've sufficiently convinced those they serve that they have superior ability to perform those tasks. Blacks hold many sports positions that are disproportionate to their population percentage, most notably football and basketball, for the same reason. I simply don't believe that gay people have a special talent for reporting news better than straight people. They're selected because of their political positions, because in most cases (not all) their political views tend to lean left. Because unlike being Jewish, or being black, being gay is pretty clearly condemned by the word of God. Anti Christian people tend to worship and trust government. Some gays honestly claim to be Christian, and I don't judge them. As a fundie, I don't believe their lives are any of my business. But I do object to their politically seeking special rights.
Every journalist you listed are obviously card-carrying Democrats so your inclusion of the asterisk to denote homosexuals was superfluous. It seems clear that your adding was to hint at them being especially bad.
Since those of them who claim to be Christian bend and shape the word of God to include themselves, it's only logical that they would tend to bend and shape the U.S. constitution to achieve leftist goals. It's not hard to notice the defiant attitude that some of them display.
WATCH: Don Lemon’s Trump Hate Goes So Low, Chris Cuomo Calls Him Out On-Air: ‘You’re Petty And Small’ | The Daily Wire
While its probably true that most gay Americans vote democrat thats definitely not representative of all of them. There's a lot of gay Republicans -- the only difference being they tend not to make their sexual orientation the focal point of a conversation and you therefore wouldn't know unless they specifically mentioned it.
Agreed, they're the ones who don't seek special rights.
You know, as much as it annoys the fuck out of me to hear people say that MSNBC and TYT aren't that biased when they obviously are, its equally annoying to hear conservatives say that FOX news isn't as biased as mainstream media. For one thing, FOX news IS mainstream media... its literally one of the Big 4. Doesn't get any more mainstream than that. Secondly, its every bit as biased, just in the direction you'd like it to be so it just seems like normal reporting to you.
Fox didn't start out as mainstream, they started out as cable station balance to the rest of the news media that was so obviously left, there was a market for what Fox had to offer, when they started up back in 1996. I don't necessarily disagree that they're mainstream by now, considering their comparable ratings, but they still don't seem to me to have the over-the-air access like the rest of the long-traditional news media, their TV access is usually included in pay packages only.
They are biased right, no doubt, but they do have a lot of liberal representation on their discussion shows. They outnumber them with conservatives, and constantly destroy and laugh at them though. They keep coming back for more - Fox must pay them really well.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3775 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-09-2019 11:59 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3881 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-15-2019 10:37 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 3827 of 5796 (868401)
12-11-2019 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 3777 by PaulK
12-10-2019 7:46 AM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
I’m pretty sure that the Founders did think that abuse of power was grounds for impeachment. And if the people who voted for the President approved of that abuse they would consider it grounds for grave concern for the nation. I certainly don’t think they would consider it grounds to halt impeachment.
Abuse of power that can be noticed in the everyday lives of the population. The Democrats current definition of "abuse of power" doesn't get anywhere near that.
I’ve seen it suggested that the Republicans should get revenge by abusing the impeachment power of the House - and Faith supported it. I hope that the Republican Party has not yet gone that far in their hatred of democracy. I don’t see any reason to think that the Democrats would automatically impeach a President who didn’t deserve it.
I'll be glad to give you a reason;
Page not found | IJR
One Democrat representative, (who WON'T be condemned for it in the mainstream media) is suggesting that they'll impeach Trump again if he wins in 2020. No idea on what grounds, but they'll think of something.
Do you think the current Democrat party hates democracy? Polls show the majority of Americans don't support the current impeachment fiasco. They're the ones who democratically elected him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3777 by PaulK, posted 12-10-2019 7:46 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3828 by PaulK, posted 12-12-2019 12:24 AM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 3849 of 5796 (868472)
12-12-2019 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 3784 by Percy
12-10-2019 11:49 AM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
(strike the last word)
It makes the point that foreign leaders regard Trump as a joke. Your post doesn't reflect an understanding of what parody is.
I understand where parody belongs and where it does not. It's fine on SNL, on political commentary shows, on talk radio be it liberal or conservative, in everyday conversations involving just about anybody. Pelosi and others have claimed that this impeachment process, is very serious, very grave, very unfortunate. Official statements about it by a congressperson, let alone a committee chair, is where it DOES NOT BELONG. Who, in an attempted walk-back of Schiff's LIE, coined the term, "parody", for this lie? It was Schiff himself. It's amazing how many others quickly attempt to help him with damage control.
Cover for him how?
By taking off and running with his "parody" excuse.
He received a lot of criticism in the mainstream media for acting in a way inappropriate and undignified for a House Committee Chairman.
I guess that depends on what the definition of "a lot" is.
So when Trump calls Schiff a "maniac" and "a deranged human being" and "a very sick man" and a liar and that he deserves to be in jail, that's justified because of insults directed at Trump after his 2015 announcement over four years ago?
Schiff only seems to have grown horns recently. He's been a member of the House since 2001. He agreed with Bush 43 about the invasion of Iraq. I never noticed him being in the news at all until very recently. He doesn't seem to have a nasty, tyrannical ambition like...Bernie Sanders, Beto O'Rourke, Tom Steyer, many others. He really seems like he could be a nice guy. What could have caused him to turn out to be a such a partisan liar so suddenly? My common sense suspicion, that you scoff at, is that he's after a money prize. That is what has turned him into a deranged maniac, a liar. Need some evidence that he's a liar?
Adam Schiff Reading Self Written Clown Parody LIED To Congress
Adam Schiff credibility crumbling amid Donald Trump impeachment push - Washington Times
MSNBC | Washington Examiner
Adam Schiff Lies About Vindman Testimony in Next Hearing
Adam Schiff Lied That He Doesn’t Know The Identity Of The Whistleblower – Def-Con News
Adam Schiff Caught in Another Major Lie
I only have one guy I'm tracking insults/attacks from, and that's Trump. I'm not deep searching the web for Trump attacks/insults, they're all right there in the headlines from all news media, including Fox News usually. If these attacks/insults were actually instigated by attacks/insults from Democrats then they should be very easy for you to find, so find them.
This List Of Attacks Against Conservatives Is Mind Blowing | The Daily Caller
The 7 Worst Liberal Attacks on Donald Trump's Family
Liberal attacks on Trump are so unhinged, it might get him killed
https://cowgernation.com/...ting-the-catholic-apostles-creed
quote:
When 95% of media donates to Democrats it is no surprise that 90% of the stories they run about Trump are nasty smears and character assassinations.
The Mainstream Media has become a 24/7 Attack on Trump • iPatriot Contributers •
My "'splainin'" comment was just a riff on I Love Lucy to indicate that you'd already told us all we needed to know, but thank you for the additional clarification about your homophobia.
Do you have a derogatory name for those who started this organization?
NLGJA: The Association of LGBTQ Journalists - Wikipedia
Hetrophobes? No? Double standard?
But I don't know of their existence. I know you keep claiming they exist, but you can't seem to produce any examples. Every attempt you've made has been rebutted nine ways from Sunday.
See above, get busy. Schiff has been shown to be a liar nine ways from Sunday. Need more links?
But unlike you, I can prove what I say is true. For any particular adjective you'd like to challenge I'll have no trouble finding a post from me documenting Trump displaying that exact trait. Perhaps you'd like to start with "cruel" (treatment of illegal immigrants at the border). How about "vengeful" (so many examples, I'll chose just one, tweeting insults at Yavanovich while she was testifying). Maybe you prefer "misogynistic" (can objections to this even be raised?). Then there's "racist" (Charlottesville). And "scheming" (the plot to force Ukraine to investigate a domestic political rival). Pick your adjective, they're all easily proven.
"Cruel", every single past U.S. president can be accused of being cruel at one time or another during their presidency. Was FDR cruel when he ordered Japanese Americans rounded up shortly after Pearl Harbor? It's only one example - all your adjectives come from a liberal political view. If they were simple true facts about who he is, he wouldn't be president, and wouldn't have the support he has from somewhere around half the population.
marc9000 writes:
Fox news is less biased than the mainstream media.
So even Fox News isn't an acceptable source for you? You're going to have to tell me your supposedly legitimate unbiased news sources.
How in this world do you take from my comment about Fox News' lack of bias to mean that I don't find them acceptable?
ABC World News Tonight averages about 8.6 million viewers nightly, which is about 3.4% of the adult population. It is not "the only news source for many Americans." Like I said, the reason you say so many incorrect things, nearly everything you write, is because you never take the trouble to check whether what you think has any factual basis.
Point taken, that was my mistake. ABC World News Tonight claims to be "America's most watched news source". They obviously lie.
You need serious help with logic and analysis. Trump sought to pressure Ukraine to make a public announcement of an investigation of Biden corruption to hurt Joe Biden's chances of obtaining the Democratic nomination.
Or maybe it was just an attempt to get justice for serious past U.S. government corruption. What evidence do you have to show that Trump was nervous about facing Biden in the 2020 election, well over a year before that election? Ever since all these Democrats have come forward seeking the nomination, Trump and most conservatives clearly see that none of them are much of a threat to defeat Trump in 2020. All the scrambling, the new billionaires like Bloomberg, Steyer etc recently jumping in, and other things make it obvious.
Of course you can't prove it. You're using a Trumpism, just like the one Trump used in the White House transcript of the phone call with Zelensky where he says, "They say Crowdstrike." Who's "they?" Trump does this all time. "They're saying this" and "they're saying that" when the only person saying it is Trump. This is what he does when he's making things up and can't prove what he's saying. That's why you just now had to add that you can't prove what you're saying, because saying stuff like "I've heard it somewhere" is not only not proof of anything, it's just a false way of trying to lend weight to something with no evidence.
Most posters here say things without constantly providing links to back them up. And often when they do, they only link to remarks from others who are opinionated just like they are. Check out the links in Message 3594 They're pretty useless, as are most claims of "proof" that are linked on message boards. I lend weight to things that I see in my life's experiences. A reader can accept them, or dismiss them. It's the way I choose to do it, you can censure me or ban me if you feel the need.
If moving forward on impeachment is only going to hurt them, then you should be delighted that the Democrats are doing this. It's not just you saying this, many Republicans and many voices in the conservative media are claiming that impeachment just hurts the Democrats. In that case you should all be urging the Democrats on in their self destructive ways.
But you're not,
How do you know I'm not? I've had the hearings on in the background today off and on, and I'm enjoying it.
because at least inside you understand that the Democrats' actions hurt Trump. They hurt themselves, too, because a significant proportion of the electorate believes Trump did nothing wrong.
Compared to Obama, he hasn't.
realclearpolitics.com
Review & Outlook: Obama's Abuse of Power - WSJ
quote:
The Obama administration was full of scandal, though we have a lazy and partisan news media that is determined to see no scandal in it.
Obama’s Many Scandals: Abuse of Government Power Worse Than Sex Scandals | National Review
Now, let's see how quickly you dismiss the links I've provided in this message, and maybe you'll see why I limit my time and effort in doing it.
I yield back.....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3784 by Percy, posted 12-10-2019 11:49 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3861 by Percy, posted 12-13-2019 9:35 PM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 3850 of 5796 (868474)
12-12-2019 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 3828 by PaulK
12-12-2019 12:24 AM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
marc9000 writes:
Abuse of power that can be noticed in the everyday lives of the population. The Democrats current definition of "abuse of power" doesn't get anywhere near that.
You still provide zero evidence that the Founders agreed with you. Using Presidential powers to coerce a foreign nation to interfere with the US electoral process on the other hand, is as clear an example of abuse of power as you will get.
Not when it's compared with the power that was exercised by past presidents. And not when it's compared with the issues the founders had with the King of England. If you read the Declaration of Independence, you'll see a lot of concern with the King's abuse of power concerning the people, not any of his dealings with other foreign countries.
The suggestion is that Trump has done or will do other things that deserve impeachment. Which is practically certain. So you’ve clearly failed. On the other hand Faith is all for impeaching a Democrat President - whoever it is - without any other reason at all.
In the future, Republicans will have no choice but to impeach the next Democrat president, though I doubt there will be another Democrat president in any of our lifetimes. They could have impeached Obama multiple times for some of his abuses of power, but they didn't because they weren't completely unhinged like today's Democrats are. If they don't impeach a future Democrat president, it will be claimed by Democrats that they don't do it because they CAN'T, that Democrats are too pure. Republicans will be forced to use the same flimsy standards that today's Democrats are using.
Hilary Clinton won the popular vote.
Where in the constitution does it say that means a thing, concerning presidential elections?
More Americans support impeachment than oppose it
Impeachment: Poll shows most Americans don't want Trump removed
Majority of Americans don't want Trump to be impeached, new poll finds - CBS News
Poll Shows the Majority of Americans Still Don't Want Trump Impeached – RedState
https://twnews.us/...ricans-don-t-want-trump-to-be-impeached

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3828 by PaulK, posted 12-12-2019 12:24 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3851 by Faith, posted 12-12-2019 11:40 PM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 3852 by PaulK, posted 12-13-2019 12:15 AM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 3878 of 5796 (868634)
12-15-2019 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 3852 by PaulK
12-13-2019 12:15 AM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
You are of course completely ignoring the fact that the coercion is intended to cause interference with the electoral process. To retain power.. That is an abuse that would likely concern the Founders.
Not when the event happens well over a year before the upcoming election, involving only one of about 20 candidates who is nowhere near the nomination. The claim of election interference is quite a stretch - it's obviously the same as most all the accusations against Trump, grasping at anything they can, not because of any concern about politics, but about a personal hatred against Trump.
Clinton was treated worse than Trump has been and less clearly deserved impeachment. And the American people agreed. The Democrats did not take revenge.
It would have been best for the country if Clinton's escapades would have gone unnoticed, but they didn't, and Clinton clearly lied under oath to a Federal Grand Jury. Trump hasn't come close to that.
If the Republicans aren’t allowed to negate the checks and balances in the Constitution you want those checks and balances abused to make the government unworkable. This is nothing less than a declaration of war against the Constitution.
It's always interesting to see those on the far left showing concern for the Constitution. For some reason, democrat presidential candidate Tom Steyer's facebook drivel shows up on my facebook feed. This is what he said, back on December 4th, I think it was. I copied it to my notepad, because I expected it to be deleted, apparently it was. But this is a fact, though you and of course Percy won't believe it.
quote:
A lot of candidates talk about the climate crisis, but words are meaningless if they’re not followed by action. I’m the only Democrat running for president who will use emergency powers of the president and declare a national climate emergency on day one.
There's not a dime's worth of difference between all the Democrat candidates, that's the reason none of them are opening up a commanding lead against the others. The climate change terror has been ramped way up since the Obama administration. Whichever Democrat gets the nomination will be planning to do something this drastic on "day one". What do you think Steyer's plan is? To declare martial law? To....search and seize all wood burning stoves?
EPA's Wood-Burning Stove Ban Has Chilling Consequences For Many Rural People
This link is from 2014, the government appetite for this and other types of seizures has been going on for a long time, the current climate change frenzy make it a bigger threat now than ever before.
Learn to read in context Marc. The subject is the opinion of the American people. Don’t you think the fact that the American people preferred Hilary Clinton to Donald Trump is relevant ?
The Electoral College reflects the will of the American people, not mobs in inner cities of California.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3852 by PaulK, posted 12-13-2019 12:15 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3879 by PaulK, posted 12-15-2019 5:08 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.3


(1)
Message 3880 of 5796 (868638)
12-15-2019 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 3861 by Percy
12-13-2019 9:35 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
What lie? It was a parody that included sarcasm and exaggeration.
In past messages, you have pointed to lists of "Trumps lies". Sarcasm and exaggeration are part of Trump's personality, everyone knows that. Could it be that about 95% on Trump's lie list are comparable to what you claim as Schiff's sarcasm and exaggeration? Double standard?
What Schiff said seems pretty much spot on to what Trump said, don't you think?
Yes, no problem so far.
Seems pretty much spot on again, don't you think?
Yes.
Trump is referring to a long-ago debunked conspiracy theory, but he's asking Zelensky to "find" something incriminating anyway, i.e., make up dirt on a political opponent. So this isn't a lie either.
Sorry, it was a big fat one. Schiff used the word "dirt". Nothing like anything Trump said. Trump's words were more about ~justice~. Your phrase "long ago debunked" is a Democrat talking point, nothing near the truth. There are a lot of unanswered questions about crack-head Hunter Biden's actions, and how they related to the Biden Vice presidency.
Schiff is referring to the other item Trump wanted investigated, the long ago debunked conspiracy theory about the supposed server that was spirited away to be hidden in the Ukraine by Crowdstrike (again, the DNC servers, just like the RNC servers, were in the cloud - there was no server to hide in the Ukraine). Trump also says, "a lot of things that went on," so Schiff just refers to it as "this and that." Again, no lies here.
Schiff just skipped over details of what Trump was referring to. Most on the far left would describe them as you do - "long ago debunked" and "there was no server", but those listening to him who aren't on the far left might have been interested in some of those details.
Schiff has Trump saying that he will put Zelensky in touch with Barr and Giuliani, and Trump says exactly that, in five separate parts of the conversation, each one an emphasis on how much Trump wants Ukraine to carry out the investigations. That's why Schiff has Trump saying that's he's only going to say this "seven times" and "a few more times." (Which also makes clear that it's parody, since no one would actually say that.) So that's not a lie, either.
"seven times" and "you better listen good". Big fat lies. Trump might talk like that at more informal times, or to the fake news media, but Trump has more respect for foreign leaders than to talk to them like that. "Don't call me again". Lie - that whole paragraph was nothing but lies and misrepresentations.
Yes, actually, since you didn't cite any. Headlines from conspiracy theory sites and opinion pieces don't carry any weight. If you can show where Schiff lied by presenting evidence and argument in your own words then go ahead and do it.
That's the reason I seldom bother to offer you evidence, you dismiss it with one sentence. If you'd have read those links, you'd see there is evidence for Schiff's other many lies, including his lie about the knowledge of the identity of the whistleblower.
The point you quoted that you didn't answer was this: So when Trump calls Schiff a "maniac" and "a deranged human being" and "a very sick man" and a liar and that he deserves to be in jail, that's justified because of insults directed at Trump after his 2015 announcement over four years ago?
Yes, it is justified. Trump has been called far worse for far less.
You've demonstrated that you can engage in name calling,
That was your biggest whopper of this thread. I don't call other posters names.
This is from the Forum Guidelines:
Bare links with no supporting discussion should be avoided. Make the argument in your own words and use links as supporting references.
Uh, what I did was provide links to support what I said in past messages, since you asked for it. I didn't see any point in repeating what I'd said in past messages.
What attack or insult from the left is Trump responding to?
Here's a hint, EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN SAID ABOUT HIM IN THE IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS! Sheesh, I love this place!
So you concede Trump is cruel?
Most, if not all of the cages for kids at the Mexican border were done during the Obama administration. This constant picking on Trump for doing comparable things as most all other past presidents is just more of what I referred to in my message to PaulK, not done in any concern about politics, just done because of a personal dislike for Trump. That's what the entire impeachment fiasco is about. Only last year, Nadler was saying that an impeachment must have significant support from both sides of the aisle.
quote:
If you’re serious about impeaching a president, it cannot and should not be done on a partisan basis. You have to have, at least by the end of the process, buy-in from the Republicans, or at least a good number of Republicans, Nadler said in a Feb. 2018 MSNBC interview.
and;
quote:
He added that if you’re really serious about removing a president from office for high crimes and misdemeanors, you shouldn’t do that unless you get at least an appreciable fraction of the people who voted for him, of the other side, to agree, reluctantly perhaps, to agree that ‘yeah, you had to do it,’ because otherwise you’ll have 20 years of recriminations. we won the election, you stole it from us. you don’t want to divide the country that way.
https://www.conservativedailynews.com/...ty-impeachment-push
(this is a conservative source, so go ahead and dismiss those actual quotes)
Nadler has obviously done a 180 on those statements he made. Why? Because of pressure from others in his party? This impeachment is nothing more than a political stunt.
There are 31 Democrat congressmen who won their 2018 in districts that Trump won in 2016. How they vote in the impeachment hearing in the House will be carefully noted by their voters in the 2020 elections.
Let's just say for the sake of argument that FDR was cruel. Is your argument that that justifies Trump's cruelty? Here's a fairly recent Trump tweet illustrating his cruel streak just one more time, as if that were necessary. Picking on an autistic 16-year old girl. Nice job:
There's nothing more cruel and appalling in U.S. history than one entire political party exploiting an America hating, foreign AUTISTIC 16 year old girl. She actually used the word "existential" in one of her public rants, as if that word is a normal part of a 16 year old's vocabulary. Her handlers should consider avoiding making it so clear that she's brainwashed and programed.
You've forgotten that you claimed only the mainstream media characterizes Trump as "furious" or "lashing out," so I cited Fox News using those terms to describe Trump. If Fox News is acceptable to you then I guess you were wrong about that.
I never used the word "only", I claimed the mainstream media regularly does it, without applying that same standard to angry Democrats.
I don't know the extent to which it's true that other posters don't support their points, but do you really want to argue that fallacious arguments from other posters justifies and validates your own fallacious arguments?
Other posters get by without supporting their points any better than I do, because conservatives are outnumbered here by about 30 to 1. It's the main reason there are so few conservative posters here.
On the contrary, the text of the links are article headlines that precisely answer the claim you made.
Yes, texts written by opinionated liberals. You really do apply double standards.
That's absurd. That Trump said, "I can do whatever I want," is provable. Here's a YouTube of him saying pretty much just that multiple times:
He always says it in response to questions and accusations, about his various firings, something past presidents have routinely done, with no one questioning them about it. Do you have no concern about the next Democrat president declaring a climate change national emergency on "day one" of their presidency?
You may be enjoying it, but you're not keeping quiet about it. If you really believed the Democrats were self-destructing then you would quietly let them continue in their self-destructive ways.
I am, I can do nothing to stop them, though I think what they're doing is bad for the country. By enjoying, I was mainly thinking about the Republicans like Doug Collins and Jim Jordan getting comparable amounts of time to make their points.
Or might it be that you actually think some advantage might accrue to the Democrats from all this.
There's no question they've got something in mind, since they've gone back on what Nadler said about support from both sides of the aisle, concerning impeachment. That's really not just Nadler's statement, it's been common sense throughout the history of the country. Maybe what they have in mind is a destruction of the Electoral College. That combined with this one-sided impeachment, could turn out to be an advantage for them.
Let us assume for the sake of argument that Obama committed terrible crimes. Do you really want to argue that because Trump's crimes are not as bad as Obama's that therefore we should pretend they didn't happen?
The same standards should always apply. The prosecution of a president shouldn't be based in any way on how much he is personally liked by the opposing party.
I yield back, permanently (for now) Have a wonderful Christmas! I enjoy going at it with you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3861 by Percy, posted 12-13-2019 9:35 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3883 by Percy, posted 12-16-2019 10:06 AM marc9000 has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 4071 of 5796 (869754)
01-05-2020 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 4038 by Percy
12-29-2019 9:21 AM


Re: Sanctimonious defense of injustice by Christtianity Today
They don't care about facts, data and evidence, either. They prefer to listen to the conservative talk show echo chamber. Man-on-the-street interviews reveal that many can repeat the false Trump talking points with little problem. Calling investigations a hoax and calling careful reporting fake news and asserting there was no extortion or coercion and asserting that the Mueller report exonerated Trump is easy, apparently almost anyone can do it on demand. Actually becoming familiar with the evidence, and resisting the urge to ignore it by calling it fake or the witnesses liars, is much more demanding and is something few Trump supporters are doing.
Doesn't this go both ways? Both sides call investigations against their side a hoax, both sides accuse the other of conspiracy theories, it goes on and on. Do you believe the "conservative talk show echo chamber" is more biased than the Washington Post and NY Times opinionated columnist echo chamber?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4038 by Percy, posted 12-29-2019 9:21 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4073 by ringo, posted 01-05-2020 3:22 PM marc9000 has replied
 Message 4124 by Percy, posted 01-06-2020 1:36 PM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 4081 of 5796 (869766)
01-05-2020 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 4053 by Percy
01-02-2020 8:39 AM


Re: What Does the Republican Party Stand For?
quote:
Four years ago...such a question would have elicited a very different answer. Though there was disagreement over specific issues, most Republicans would have said the party stood for some basic principles: fiscal sanity, free trade, strong on Russia, and that character and personal responsibility count.
I'm for fiscal sanity, free trade, a strong defense, a foreign policy that opposes the world's bad players like Russia, and I think character counts. A lot. I oppose Trump because he has abandoned these core conservative values.
The problem is, those aren't core conservative values. Your echo chamber columnist was incorrect, most actual Republicans would not have used those honeyed, vague, largely meaningless terms to describe conservativism. As you've shown, they are adaptable to just about any political view. Here's how an actual Republican would have described conservatism; The promotion of individual freedom, the importance of personal responsibility, the reduction of the powers of the federal government, and a maintenance of traditional, Judeo Christian morals.
Between Reagan and Trump, 5 career politicians have sought the presidency, Bush 41, Bob Dole, Bush 43, John McCain, and Mitt Romney. All of their beliefs, fading further and further from actual conservatism from 41 to Romney, has made the Trump jolt back to actual conservatism so confusing for you.
Here's a look at some actual conservatism from a little over 100 years ago;
quote:
Theodore Roosevelt’s ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.
In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.
This goes along very well with Trump's words and actions of today.
If McCain were still alive the strain of Republicans holding to core conservative values would also still be alive, but it seems to have died with him. Almost all Republicans today are doing whatever it takes to survive (meaning to be reelected) in this age of Trump until it is over. It's as if an entire party and all its supporters have gone off the deep end all at the same time.
Another thing that has you confused is how Republicans have had to adapt to largely different circumstances in the past 50 or 60 years, mainly because the Democrat party bears little resemblance of what it was in the past, even since the Reagan administration. Last year, there were re-runs of news reports from 50 years ago, that covered the MLK assassination. There was NO MENTON of the NRA in those reports, there was no climate-change terrorism in those days, there were no cries of healthcare for all in those days, no special-rights-for-gays movements, no demands to dismantle the electoral college, no frivolous articles of impeachment against a properly elected president.
There were no Democrats anywhere near a position of power that would succeed in getting frivolous articles of impeachment through the House, then cry because the same president that they're trying so hard to destroy doesn't seek their advise, and risk their leaking of classified information, before he takes proper action in response to an attack on our foreign embassy.
Lindsey Graham is the poster child for this Trumpian abandonment of principle. He hasn't been shy about explaining his change of heart about Trump, who in 2015 he called a "race-baiting xenophobic religious bigot." He says he became Trump's strongest supporter because he wanted to make a difference. What he actually did was take an unprincipled path of least resistance to political power. Lindsey Graham now stands for the very things he found so objectionable in Trump just a few years ago. This is why history will know Lindsey Graham as a politician of flexible principles rather than as a statesman. I wonder if Graham realizes that.
Lindsey Graham has always gone where the political winds blow him. He'd probably say that he listens to his constituents, and tries to adapt to their wishes as best he can. Plenty of politicians on both sides do that. I'm not really interested in a discussion on how right or how wrong that is.
But the question remains: If the Republican party no longer stands for core conservative principles, then what does it stand for?
Hopefully your question is answered - you're welcome. If not, I'll answer any reasonable questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4053 by Percy, posted 01-02-2020 8:39 AM Percy has replied

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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.3


(1)
Message 4085 of 5796 (869771)
01-05-2020 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 4073 by ringo
01-05-2020 3:22 PM


Re: Sanctimonious defense of injustice by Christtianity Today
Why are you guys so obsessed with opinionated columnists? Can't you form your own opinions based on the events in the news?
That was a response to someone who is obsessed with opinionated conservative commentators, who often report news events that the mainstream news media omits. It's one of the many pot-calling-the-kettle-black issues that Trump haters have.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4073 by ringo, posted 01-05-2020 3:22 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 4092 of 5796 (869780)
01-05-2020 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 4072 by RAZD
01-05-2020 3:08 PM


Re: LIBERAL FASCISM IS HERE: IGNORANT FAKE NEWS
Germany was Fascist.
Germany was a dictatorship. Nazism. Italy was Fascist.
Conservatives often label today's Democrats as socialists, liberals, communist sympathizers, largely because that's what they are. Those are derogatory terms, and through the 70's and 80's Democrats had no derogatory terms with which to put down conservatives, the term "conservative" isn't, and never has been, a derogatory term. They searched and searched, and finally, taking advantage of the terms "right wing", and "leftist", which were used very differently in 1940's Europe, they found the term "fascist", and adopted that term for conservatives, as if it's the opposite of communism, which it isn't.
quote:
Benito Mussolini, an Italian World War I veteran and publisher of Socialist newspapers, breaks with the Italian Socialists and establishes the nationalist Fasci di Combattimento, named after the Italian peasant revolutionaries, or Fighting Bands, from the 19th century. Commonly known as the Fascist Party, Mussolini’s new right-wing organization advocated Italian nationalism, had black shirts for uniforms, and launched a program of terrorism and intimidation against its leftist opponents.
Mussolini founds the Fascist party - HISTORY
"launched a program of terrorism and intimidation" - does that sound like the climate-change hoax? If one takes into consideration the actual context of of "right wing" and "leftist" labels of that place and time, it becomes very obvious which party in the U.S. today is closest to fascism.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 4095 of 5796 (869785)
01-05-2020 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 4088 by RAZD
01-05-2020 3:51 PM


Re: LIBERAL FASCISM IS HERE: IGNORANT FAKE NEWS
Trump treats immigrants the way Germany treated Jews -- caging them, separating their families, failing to provide medical attention etc -- that fascist.
Was Theodore Roosevelt a fascist?
What is comparable done by liberals?
Climate-change terror. It has been wildly ramped up since the last year of the Obama administration.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4088 by RAZD, posted 01-05-2020 3:51 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 4096 of 5796 (869786)
01-05-2020 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 4094 by RAZD
01-05-2020 4:06 PM


Re: LIBERAL FASCISM IS HERE: IGNORANT FAKE NEWS
Makes Nixon look like a boy scout.
How does it make the Clintons look, what's the dead body count around them up to by now?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4094 by RAZD, posted 01-05-2020 4:06 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 4149 of 5796 (869923)
01-08-2020 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 4110 by RAZD
01-05-2020 8:35 PM


Re: LIBERAL FASCISM IS HERE: IGNORANT FAKE NEWS
I did a search on "Theodore Roosevelt caging kids, separating their families, failing to provide medical attention etc" ... nothing.
Now I realize I may be talking to the wind, but maybe you could explain what characteristics make you think he was?
The words from that paragraph.
quote:
...it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American There can be no divided allegiance here.
It was not predicated on people coming here only for free stuff, or to escape problems of other nations. Wasn't predicated on anything like the immigration problems we have today. I don't know just what prompted him to make those statements, but it's for sure that it wasn't because there was free stuff here for them - there wasn't at that time. The actions he would have taken against ILLEGAL immigration would make Trump's pale in comparison.
Except that climate change is a real challenge for the human race. Last time you and I talked about it, you made some comment about forest fires only in California, care to comment on what is happening in Australia?
Don't mind a bit. I knew you'd be delighted about those fires.
Police Arrest 24 People for Arson in Australian Bushfires
Intentional setting - why? Some of the 180 figure seem to be from just carelessness, but 24 seem to have malicious intent. Do you think they all had separate reasons, or were they coordinated? Are all of the 24 native Australians, or were some of them transported there? Many questions remain to be answered, and they may never be reported on, but I only have one guess as to what special interest organized them and funded them. Can you guess what my guess is? Do you have other guesses? (hint; climate-change corruption has more money and power potential than any other political movement since the beginning of time.)
The facts are in -- climate change is happening. It is not some wildly ramped up terror conspiracy.
Climate change fear has increased faster in the last 3 years than Nazism in early and mid 1930's Germany. There's more money and corruption involved than George Soros can even fantasize about.
Here's some more facts that are in, few people have any intention of making any sacrifices or paying anything for it.
Climate change polls: Americans are more worried about climate change - Vox
It seems that about 97% of scientists agree that climate change is caused by humans, and it's looking more and more like that same 97% agree that it's not their own fault, or the fault of their own political beliefs. Most of that 97% are non U.S. scientists of course (who point fingers at the U.S. and a few other successful countries) The ones from the U.S. are mostly liberal atheists, so they point fingers at Trump and Republicans.
It's been almost a year since the genius of the climate change movement, Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, invented the Green New Deal, telling us that our lives are over if we don't completely stop with fossil fuels in 12 years. Just about down to 11 now, times a wastin. Any ideas on just what is to be done to persuade most people to make sacrifices? Set more fires? Sensationalize more and more about snow in January? About hot weather in the summer? Hurricanes? Implying to young people that these things have never happened before?
In my area, the Cincinnati area, we had 2 brutal winters on both sides of 1977, 32 years ago. Much more snow than average - the Ohio river froze solid in early 77, people were walking across it. Thankfully that was before climate change was invented, there would be a complete panic, probably involving martial law, if that happened today under a Democrat president / senate.
But, as I've said before, I don't think we're going to see another Democrat president in our lifetimes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4110 by RAZD, posted 01-05-2020 8:35 PM RAZD has replied

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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 4150 of 5796 (869925)
01-08-2020 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 4111 by RAZD
01-05-2020 10:32 PM


Re: LIBERAL FASCISM IS HERE: IGNORANT FAKE NEWS
quote:
Fascism (/fz’m/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy[3]
"Authoritarian ultranationalism" goes along with the big government beliefs of today's Democrats far more than it does with the individualistic beliefs of Republicans.
quote:
...they (liberals) also have far more in common with fascism than conservatives do, given their penchant for centralized governmental power and too much state control over business and industry, as we've seen most strikingly under President Barack Obama.
Fascism Is Not Conservatism
And curiously I don't know any of today's democrats that are communist sympathizers. I do know some Social Democrats, but no actual socialists. Conservatives often label people with those terms to scare people away from Democrats, not because they are valid. That's because conservatives these days don't have any programs to benefit working people, it's all about making rich people richer. Thus they have to use fear instead of attractive programs.
If you believe every word they say, that they only want some power, and will stop when they get only a prescribed amount, that could be true. But it doesn't square with the history of human nature.
"Rich people richer", the standard line. Why would so many average Americans vote for Republicans if that's all the Republican party stood for?
The Republican standard line is, of course, that the Democrats want to make "big government bigger", to further only their own power and money. And you would ask me, why would so many average Americans vote for Democrats if that's all they wanted? After all, the carbon credit trading that goes along with climate change would benefit only a few rich Democrats, it wouldn't benefit the average Democrat voter at all. Don't the average Democrats voters see the selfish desires of advocates of bigger government?
The answer is, of course they do. They don't actually trust government much more than Republicans do. They have another motive - JEALOUSY. They really love the idea of cutting hard working, personally responsible Republican voters down their own idle size. It's the reason they don't fear climate change mandates, they have nothing to sacrifice. So many of them don't care about liberty, they take no advantage of the liberty that is available to them. They don't care about sacrifice, they have little to sacrifice. Many of them live in rented homes, the climate change that their home's heating system generates is of no concern to them, it's their landlords problem. If they're not on a government handout and actually work a job, any climate change they do in the carrying out of their job is their bosses problem, not theirs.
It's always the same, they love government's attacks on the "rich", believing the rich will dutifully knuckle under to government mandates, make sacrifices, and keep on producing and supplying employment for them. What happens more often than not, is "the rich", being much smarter than government agents, find a way to satisfy government mandates by raising their costs not only enough to cover the mandates, but to include a nice little raise for themselves, at the increasing expense of the public.
My health care multiplied by 4 times during the second Obama administration.
I'll take the side of less government meddling, and more free markets.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4111 by RAZD, posted 01-05-2020 10:32 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 4151 of 5796 (869926)
01-08-2020 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 4113 by PaulK
01-06-2020 1:19 AM


Re: LIBERAL FASCISM IS HERE
Funny how Marc’s attempts to show that ended up with him revealing his own contempt for liberal democracy.
The text of the constitution and intent of the framers also shows a contempt for liberal democracy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4113 by PaulK, posted 01-06-2020 1:19 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
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