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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News (renamed)
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6833
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 7.0


(2)
Message 3601 of 3766 (867370)
11-24-2019 9:06 AM


Paul Krugman: Republicans really hate their opponents
Paul Krugman's column from Friday:

Trump and His Corrupt Old Party

Paul Krugman expresses his concerns about the viability of democracy in a nation where one major party remains committed to its own permanent rule and delegitimation of the opposition; concerns that will persist even if the Democrats win the Presidency and both Houses of Congress.

Formally, the House of Representatives is holding an inquiry into the question of whether Donald J. Trump should be impeached....

[W]hat we’re actually witnessing is a test of the depths to which the Republican Party will sink.

And his observation is one we've been seeing here on EvC:

On one side, I don’t think most observers realize, even now, the extent to which many Republicans view their domestic opponents not as fellow citizens but as enemies with no legitimate right to govern.

For this generation of far-right nationalists, religion is not a question of ethical conduct; it is purely about identity and peoplehood. -- Jan-Werner Müller

Replies to this message:
 Message 3602 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 10:51 AM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33870
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 3602 of 3766 (867372)
11-24-2019 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 3601 by Chiroptera
11-24-2019 9:06 AM


Paul Krugman Republicans **** their Opponents
How very very interesting. Not surprising though. Every word you wrote describes the Democrats and not the Republicans. How interesting. This sort of reversal of fcct is the main thing chrctrizing American politics these days. What is true of the Democrats is projected onto the Republicans. Though I wouldn't say "Republicans" I'd say coservatives or the Right since there are a lot of Republicans 3who sound llke Democrats these days. there has never been such irrational htttred as we see coming from the llkes of Schiff and those trying to impeach Trump for completed invented misdeeds. There has never been such distortion of American institutions and American politics as we've been seeing in this sharade of an impeachment hearing. The sharade of the Mueller Report should have been enough but the Democrats' utterly irrational hytred of Donald trump is going to come up with something, anything, no matter how false, and their followers are going to eat it up.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3601 by Chiroptera, posted 11-24-2019 9:06 AM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 3603 by PaulK, posted 11-24-2019 11:10 AM Faith has responded
 Message 3605 by JonF, posted 11-24-2019 11:59 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15637
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


(3)
Message 3603 of 3766 (867373)
11-24-2019 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 3602 by Faith
11-24-2019 10:51 AM


Re: Paul Krugman: Republicans really hate their opponents
quote:
How very very interesting. Not surprising though. Every word you wrote describes the Democrats and not the Republicans. How interesting. This sort of reversal of fcct is the main thing chrctrizing American politics these day

And you are the one responsible for the reversal. Indeed it’s one of your favourite tactics.

It’s the Republicans who obstructed judicial appointments under Obama, so they could flood the courts with political appointees. It’s the Republicans who are caught in electoral fraud. It’s the Republicans who are gerrymandering and engaging in voter suppression tactics.

And there are plenty of Republican hate mongers like Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh and worse. We really don’t see anything like as much from the Democrats.

quote:
...there has never been such irrational htttred as we see coming from the llkes of Schiff and those trying to impeach Trump for completed invented misdeeds.

By which you mean you hate Schiff for his part in bringing the evidence of misdeeds to light.

Hate and smears. That’s the Republican defence. To my mind that’s an admission of guilt.

quote:
There has never been such distortion of American institutions and American politics as we've been seeing in this sharade of an impeachment hearing

The Democrats are acting within the Constitution- it’s the Republican obstruction and smears which are the problem.

quote:
The sharade of the Mueller Report should have been enough but the Democrats' utterly irrational hytred of Donald trump is going to come up with something, anything, no matter how false, and their followers are going to eat it up.

Yes, the Republicans want the Russians to meddle with the election. On their behalf, want to be able to obstruct allinvestigation - and talk as if that’s their right,

The Republicans are out to destroy the Republic. They want sham elections and show trials. Stalin would be proud,


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3602 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 10:51 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3604 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 11:58 AM PaulK has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33870
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 3604 of 3766 (867374)
11-24-2019 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 3603 by PaulK
11-24-2019 11:10 AM


Re: Paul Krugman: Republicans really **** their opponents
All I can do is say the same thing I already said of course, it's you guys who have everything backwards. I hear the trvth every day but you all seem to get only the fake news.

Yes Coulter is usually good though lately she seems to have gone off the rails. Limbaugh is still good though. And Hannity and Mark Levin who puts in a lot of work analyzing all the elements of what's going on, and others.
\
Yes it is the Democrats trying to destroy the Repubic and just about succeeding already, with their Stalinist tactics of show trials, shutting up the opposition and so on. Every word you said in that last paragraph describes the Democrats.

I hope this ridiculous Russian collusion thing eventually gets shown for what it is. Yes they tried to affect the election, but on Hillary's side, and they didn't succeed, but the Ukrainians were also trying to do that and according to Politico of January 2017 (Message 3099) they did succeed.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3603 by PaulK, posted 11-24-2019 11:10 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3606 by JonF, posted 11-24-2019 12:02 PM Faith has responded
 Message 3608 by PaulK, posted 11-24-2019 12:10 PM Faith has responded
 Message 3619 by Chiroptera, posted 11-24-2019 4:06 PM Faith has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5609
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 3605 of 3766 (867375)
11-24-2019 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 3602 by Faith
11-24-2019 10:51 AM


Re: Paul Krugman Republicans Hate their Opponents
{snip usual fact-free rant}

Making it yet again obvious that you have no meaningful response to the accusations and facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3602 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 10:51 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5609
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 3606 of 3766 (867376)
11-24-2019 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 3604 by Faith
11-24-2019 11:58 AM


Re: Paul Krugman: Republicans really hate their opponents
All I can do is say the same thing I already said of course, it's you guys who have everything backwards.

Yes, we know. That's all you can do. You can't muster any actual facts. You can't come up with quotes that support your fantasy. You can't produce any meaningful response to the mountains of evidence of Trump's criminality. All you can do is repeat the same unevidenced BS over and over and over and over and over again.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3604 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 11:58 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3607 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 12:05 PM JonF has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33870
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 3607 of 3766 (867377)
11-24-2019 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 3606 by JonF
11-24-2019 12:02 PM


Re: Paul Krugman: Republicans really **** their opponents
You are quite right, I can't come up with quotes very easily. I get most of my stuff off the radio and it goes by too quickly, but pretty much the same thing is said by many different commentators, and I do keep putting up that actual piece by Politico which ought to be counted as solid evidence against the ridiculous Russian collusion theme song.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3606 by JonF, posted 11-24-2019 12:02 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3610 by JonF, posted 11-24-2019 12:48 PM Faith has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15637
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 3608 of 3766 (867378)
11-24-2019 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 3604 by Faith
11-24-2019 11:58 AM


Re: Paul Krugman: Republicans really hate their opponents
quote:
All I can do is say the same thing I already said of course, it's you guys who have everything backwards. I hear the trvth every day but you all seem to get only the fake news.

Yes we understand that you think it’s right to smear the Democrats and wrong to tell the truth about the Republicans. But that’s an example of the hate.

You choose to listen to the hate because you love it. You choose to reject accurate reporting as “fake news”. But that’s your problem, not ours.

quote:
Yes Coulter is usually good though lately she seems to have gone off the rails. Limbaugh is still good though. And Hannity and Mark Levin who puts in a lot of work analyzing all the elements of what's going on, and others.

Coulter was always off the rails. That’s what you liked. The others are just as bad.

quote:
Yes it is the Democrats trying to destroy the Repubic and just about succeeding already, with their Stalinist tactics of show trials, shutting up the opposition and so on. Every word you said in that last paragraph describes the Democrats.

And there you go with the reversal tactic again. It’s really overused, and not very clever.

quote:
I hope this ridiculous Russian collusion thing eventually gets shown for what it is. Yes they tried to affect the election, but on Hillary's side, and they didn't succeed, but the Ukrainians were also trying to do that and according to Politico of January 2017 they did succeed.

You mean that you hope that the real evidence gets covered up in favour of your ridiculous false narrative, the Russians did nothing to support Hilary Clinton. And Politico got it wrong about the Ukraine - it was their anti-corruption organisation that exposed Manafort.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3604 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 11:58 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3609 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 12:12 PM PaulK has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33870
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 3609 of 3766 (867379)
11-24-2019 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 3608 by PaulK
11-24-2019 12:10 PM


No, I mean what i said
One of your preferred tacts these days seems to be putting words in my mouth, "you really mean..." etc.

No, I really mean what I actually said.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3608 by PaulK, posted 11-24-2019 12:10 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3613 by RAZD, posted 11-24-2019 1:14 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 3615 by PaulK, posted 11-24-2019 1:33 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5609
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 3610 of 3766 (867382)
11-24-2019 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 3607 by Faith
11-24-2019 12:05 PM


Re: Paul Krugman: Republicans really hate their opponents
That Politico piece doesn't support your argument, as has been explained many times. And it's not on the current topic.

The current discussion is about Trump's attempt to get Ukraine to reopen an investigation which was closed (rightly) years ago, before Biden criticized the prosecutor, and investigate Russian propaganda claiming that Ukraine rather than Russia interfered in 2016.

Not only can you not get quotes, you can't get anything remotely resembling a fact.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3607 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 12:05 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3611 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 1:02 PM JonF has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33870
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 3611 of 3766 (867385)
11-24-2019 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 3610 by JonF
11-24-2019 12:48 PM


Re: Paul Krugman: Republicans really **** their opponents
Yeah well what gets "explained" many times" here is just a bunch of bullcrap. The Politico piece answers the Russian collusion accusation showing how involved the Ukrainians were on Hillary's side. Trump wants to know what happened in that corrupt action and obviously he wouldn't be asking if it had been closed. It's not closed, all we've ever herd is invented lles about how it was really intervention for Trump rather than against him. It's all lles and you all believe them. We still need all of this to come out. Trump is NOT GILTY of anything the Democrats have been throwing at him. There is evidence in the fcct that tthey have to keep inventing new accusations as each in turn crqashes and burns. Politico contradicts your lles and I'm going with Politico. Biden was interfering in a prsecur's investigations into the company Biden's son worked for.

Weird how the words Percy eliminates are all necessary for conveying the conservative point of view.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3610 by JonF, posted 11-24-2019 12:48 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3612 by JonF, posted 11-24-2019 1:13 PM Faith has responded
 Message 3617 by JonF, posted 11-24-2019 2:14 PM Faith has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5609
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 3612 of 3766 (867387)
11-24-2019 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 3611 by Faith
11-24-2019 1:02 PM


Re: Paul Krugman: Republicans really hate their opponents
The Biden investigation was closed a year before Joe Biden and many other governments called for the prosecutor's ouster because he wasn't doing any investigating . There has been no Interference with any investigation.

Trump just wants it reopened for political purposes. As so many people have testified.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3611 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 1:02 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3614 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 1:15 PM JonF has responded
 Message 3623 by Percy, posted 11-25-2019 11:56 AM JonF has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20326
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 3613 of 3766 (867388)
11-24-2019 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 3609 by Faith
11-24-2019 12:12 PM


Re: No, I mean what i said
One of your preferred tacts these days seems to be putting words in my mouth, "you really mean..." etc.

No, I really mean what I actually said.

And what you have said is that you believe Russian propaganda over objective empirical evidence.

Of course you don't think it is Russian propaganda, because you are told that the propaganda is true.

The aid that was passed by the house, passed by the senate and then signed by Trumpty, was held up.

That is a fact.

The people working on foreign policy at the embassy and at the White House were not told why it was held up, and it took them several weeks to find out it was held up.

That is a fact.

Holding it up served no foreign policy or national security purpose, and if fact it weakened our foreign policy and national security because it wasn't helping Ukraine fight the Russians, and it did not show that the US was strongly supporting Ukraine in the war.

That is a fact.

People were and are dying in the Ukrainian war against Russian invasion.

That is a fact.

Fighting against Russian invasion is in line with our foreign policy and it is in our national security to assist it.

That is a fact.

The hold on the aid was coming from the White House.

That is a fact.

The White House released the aid 2 days after the house announced they were investigating the hold.

That is a fact.

The obvious conclusion is that the White House was caught holding the aid either through incompetence or for some nefarious reason ... because if there were a valid or legal foreign policy or national security reason for withholding the aid it would not have been released.

The evidence shows that a nefarious reason for withholding the aid was that Trumpty was trying to force the Ukraine president to investigate Biden and manufacture evidence to bolster the Russian propaganda of Ukraine interference in the 2016 election, and to make a pubic statement to that effect.

That's also fact.

Democrats had nothing to do with inventing or making up these facts, all they have done is uncover them.

Anyone who watched the actual hearings would know this. NPR streamed them live and they were also on

Watch Live House Proceedings | House.gov

C-SPAN Live Stream | C-SPAN.org

Impeachment | Video | C-SPAN.org

Those are non-network streams direct from the house. CSPAN is not partisan.

Thus you can, could have, gotten the full information from the hearings direct with neither democratic or republican filter/bias editing or commentary.

Enjoy


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 3609 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 12:12 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33870
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 3614 of 3766 (867390)
11-24-2019 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 3612 by JonF
11-24-2019 1:13 PM


Re: Paul Krugman: Republicans really **** their opponents
Your word against mine bucko.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3612 by JonF, posted 11-24-2019 1:13 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3616 by JonF, posted 11-24-2019 2:10 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15637
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 3615 of 3766 (867396)
11-24-2019 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 3609 by Faith
11-24-2019 12:12 PM


Re: No, I mean what i said
quote:
One of your preferred tacts these days seems to be putting words in my mouth, "you really mean..." etc.

Actually that really is what you mean. You don’t want the actual facts to come out you just want your false narrative to be confirmed. There is no sign of the Russians supporting Hilary Clinton at all. But there is plenty of evidence of the Russians supporting Trump.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3609 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 12:12 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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