Free will vs Omniscience

All I see is that God is inevitable. God is past. God is present..(today...right now.) God is future(in that He always will be...at each present moment that I live.)If God knows something, He knows it whenever He so chooses to know it. We cannot say that God must by necessity always know BEFORE we choose. We can but say that what we choose is known. Why? Because God knows us.Personally I believe that God chooses to know only as we choose. It is His gift to us and it is our responsibility. He allows us to freely create our own destiny...in communion with Him. With God, there is no before nor after. There only is communion. Look again at my verses from Revelation. God was. God Is. God will forever be. The Beast(a symbol of rebellion) Once was.(as Lucifer the angel, perhaps.) Now is not. And yet is for those whose names are not in the book of life. They chose their destiny. Their destiny may be said to be Gods responsibility since He initially created evil...but I believe God only created the possibility of evil....Fallen angels actualized the possibility and humans choose the eventuality...or not.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

OK I see your point. One question, though. If God knows AFTER we make our decisions, does this not mean that He would also know BEFORE? The only inevitability is God Himself.

So the only way to truly have free will is if God is wrong occasionally?Edited by Phat, : spallin

Is it logical for the Creator of all seen and unseen to not know the future? Is there any particular reason that we dare imagine a God who not only does not know the future but is essentially amoral? Not personable?Ive researched your basic idea of God. And yet humans are supposed to correct this God when God gets something wrong!! Unbelievable!Anyway...my conclusion has yet to be reached on this subject.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

His allowing us to even have free will was allowing us to even have a point of view apart from His. Perhaps He wanted us to have the freedom to disagree with Him. We may have to ask Lucifer about that one, though I doubt we could get a straight answer out of him.

I think I see your argument. In Gods mind, there is no choice. no free will. There simply is or is not.Thus within His mind we have no free will. The argument is that we could have chosen no other path than what God sees in His mind.From our standpoint, however, we behave and react as if we are making choices. Whats so wrong with that?

Im not talking about the character in the book...im talking about GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen...whom you supposedly believe in.

I limit my own freewill in that IF I choose Yes I couldnt possibly have chosen No.

Because God loves. Why does anyone have a favorite pet? What possible reason could you imagine would make humans "more attractive" than germs?

Open Theism makes sense to me. It basically has human decision and Gods interaction as co-creation.

Belief is not always pointless. You are a perfect reason why I believe free will trumps omniscience. It would not be logical for God to create you foreknowing you to not believe. God loves Tangle as much as he loves Mother Theresa.It will be a grand testimony when the final chapters of your life have been written.

The creation of the possibility of evil was a consequence of allowing free will. Good point.Ringo seems to think that anytime anyone (human or Deity) can do good they should do good. But the sun analogy brings up the point...is it Gods responsibility to make sure every created thing lives forever?

Did it ever occur to you that "the inevitable" is doing you? You once asked me to explain communion. Communion is humans freely choosing their destiny in isolated moments of time and being accepted by GOD eternally. Perhaps the reason we are accepted is because our free choice is what is best for everyone concerned.Another way to explain this. Say that all knowledge is the result of choices in time. We make choices moment by moment throughout time.At any given moment in time we are either in communion or out of communion. You may argue that simply by knowing the moment makes the Creator responsible and potentially evil. I would argue that the decision of each moment is ours.

There are many things that some chapters of club christian believe which cannot be proven. Life happens like that. Books can tell us a lot, but nothing trumps experience. Once one has experienced certain truths, no book can deny this experience.Granted I often make many "salads." Any one of us can have an opinion or a belief, and thanks to Percy (and freedom of speech) we can present our ideas publically for critique and evaluation.I test many ideas and adapt some while rejecting others. What GOD knows is irrelevant to the lives which we live and the choices which we make. I believe that GOD chooses everybody, just as you do. I disagree with the idea that we are only expected to try and do our best. You minimize the idea of getting to know GOD....having decided that such an endeavor is impossible at best. I feel that I am beginning to know Him..though I have a long way to go in this relationship.Whether we humans truly have free will or not, we are responsible for what we will. (And what we do)By the way, you can't simply pick and choose which God you choose to worship. Ultimately, the Creator of all seen and unseen will have His way whether humans call Him evil or not. We should be unconcerned with what GOD knows and when GOD knows it.

Personally I think that what annoys many people is the whole idea that they can never decide to do something apart from what God knows.Tough.