Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity

No.

Why not?This really has nothing to do with the topic and I realize I made a mistake with Frako's Message 22 in the same way. None of this is about personal sins, it's about the ordinance of marriage given by God. It isn't about people being gay, it's about marriage and God's definition of it.Trump's sins are greatly exaggerated by the Left, especially if you are comparing him to Hillary and Bill, and in a better world I'd take personal sins into account more than I think appropriate in this time of rampant sin, but for the most part personal sins are a person's own business -- except in certain circumstances such as applying for the position of pastor or elder in a church or wherever else high moral standards apply.; Again Trump's are greatly exaggerated.Frako brought up the old irrelevancy of the OT's prohibition of mixing fabrics and I answered with the usual fact that it only applied to ancient Israel. Which is true but irrelevant to this topic, because disobeying any particular law isn't a reason to deny the person a wedding cake or any other kind of service.I can think of only one exception: Remarriage after a divorce is a reason.And gay marriage. And that's because of the insult to God's ordinance of marriage, not the personal sin.

I'm sure if there is some way to tell in advance that the customer is asking for a wedding service you will have to refuse, the seller WOULD come up with an excuse.Yes, sometimes the customer IS looking for a fight, wants to threaten a Christian business.And maybe all businesses that deal in wedding services should put a fish on their door, as some businesses do anyway. Unfortunately that might be as much of a goad to the people looking for a fight as a reason for others to go elsewhere.Also, what IS this arrogant insistence that a Christian is "wrong" about such a decision? You think they LIKE turning people away? I can assure you they do not. It was kind of an agony for the Oregon bakery couple who don't have an anti-gay bone in their bodies. For them and the others it's strictly a matter of obedience to God.One more thing. It should be mentioned that Muslim bakeries are either not targeted for wedding cakes by gay couples, or turn them away without being sued. They will not make a wedding cake for gays either, so why are they exempt from the consequences of discriminating against them?

I have such a headache after being taken on the ride through your bumpy logic I think I'm going to have to lie down.

ALMOST there, but you missed the point that this is not about personal sin, it's about the meaning of marriage as an ordinance of God.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Well, getting out of such businesses is probably what the law is going to force a lot of Christians to do. Hope it makes you all happy to be the instrument of such injustice.God didn't say anything about the validity of any particular method of uniting people, but we were open to the idea of a civil contract and instead what we got was specifically marriage. A wedding cake is a traditional emblem of a marriage.l Marriage is an ordinance of God, however it is performed. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

You know nothing.Marriage is performed in lots of different ways in different cultures and different circumstances. In ancient Israel, and probably the Middle East in general and lots of other places, it was just a matter of the man taking the woman into his home, tent or whatever, in a public way, no ceremony otherwise. It's a universal ordinance for all people in all times, it doesn't have to be performed by a religious leader for it to be a union ordained by God.Even when ceremonies were involved I'm not sure any religious ceremony was necessarily part of it until more recent times. There was a week-long wedding feast in Israel, but no mention in the Bible of any religious ceremony.ABE: The hints in the Bible to wedding events picture mostly the man getting a home for the couple to live in while the bride waits for him to come and get her, and then he comes and takes her to the place he has prepared for them to live. That and the wedding feast are mentioned, no wedding ceremony as such. Perhaps sometimes there was such a ceremony but the Bible doesn't mention it and leaves the impression it's not necessary.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Marriage being a secular contract in today's world does not change its status as an ordinance given by God. It doesn't matter how the marriage is brought about, marriage is an ordinance of God. Different cultures do marriage in lots of different ways. No matter what the way marriage is an ordinance of God.Legalizing gay marriage means anyone who regards it as a violation of God's law is forced by the law to accept it as valid or refuse to accept it and take the consequences. That means it IS an attack on Christianity just as the law of Caesar worship was an attack on Christianity.

No, only when it is between one man and one woman because that IS the ordinance of God.But it doesn't matter if it's sealed by a government license or any other means, it is an ordinance given by God.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

There seems to be a false idea that because something is ordained by God it's a "religious" thing, but of course it isn't. God made everything in the universe, ordained everything in the natural world. The natural world is natural, not a religious thing. So marriage is just the way God ordained families to exist, children be born and so on. An atheist's marriage is just as much ordained by God as a Hindu's or a Native American's, one initiated in a religious ceremony or one initiated by a state license or one initiated by publically moving in together. There's only one true form of it and that is one man and one woman and cultures violate that all the time, but the ordinance is still in operation with or without violations of it.

It's SO funny when people at EvC tell me how such and such was "explained" to me. That really makes me laugh.

Are you kidding!?. We have a LAW that says there is such a thing as a marriage between homosexuals. MARRIAGE LICENSES are issued to confirm it, regular standard marriage licenses, not some special form of contract, ordinary marriage licenses, making gay marriage the equivalent of heterosexual marriage. It is a LAW so we HAVE to obey it or suffer the consequences.ABE: Actually, strictly speaking it isn't a law and shouldn't be regarded as a law because it was initiated by the Supreme Court, not the legislature in one of the many usurpings of law the SCOTUS has become famous for. It's treated as law, however, it is enforced as law, even though it is in actual reality an illegal law.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

There are in fact Muslim bakeries and someone went into one with a hidden camera and asked for a wedding cake for him and his male partner and the owner said he wouldn't do it. The would be customer finally had to get specific that this was for a gay wedding so that the refusal was clearly a refusal for that reason. Anyway, yes there are Muslim bakeries that do make wedding cakes.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Three sources of LAW you say? Whatever happened to the division of powers, one legislative or the maker of law, one executive and one for judging cases on the basis of the law. The Supreme Court is not supposed to make law.