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Author Topic:   Free will vs Omniscience
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1140 of 1444 (881215)
08-19-2020 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1132 by ringo
08-19-2020 1:18 PM


Re: Is This How You Treated Each Other On The Porch Discussions?
Ask Phat. He's the one who presumably thinks God is omniscient, yet is completely innocent about any decisions that we might make.
God must be omniscient. Otherwise, it is not a qualified god and is not God. You can not use free will issue to deny God. Because when you start to talk about this issue, you already assume God is omniscient.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1132 by ringo, posted 08-19-2020 1:18 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1146 by ringo, posted 08-20-2020 9:02 AM Juvenissun has not replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1142 of 1444 (881220)
08-20-2020 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1141 by Phat
08-20-2020 3:23 AM


Re: Is This How You Treated Each Other On The Porch Discussions?
Do humans define God? Is it possible that God exists apart from human definition?
Good questions. Both are possible.
For non-Christian gods, they are defined by human.
For Christian God, God is "understood" by human through human wisdom and the Bible. We put those understanding together and organized it by logic, then we present the most likely definition of God.
In Christianity, to have (not to create) a definition of God (i.e. to know who is God) is the first step to discuss and to understand anything else in the Bible. This may not be true for other religions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1141 by Phat, posted 08-20-2020 3:23 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1143 of 1444 (881221)
08-20-2020 7:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1141 by Phat
08-20-2020 3:23 AM


Re: Is This How You Treated Each Other On The Porch Discussions?
What characteristics make this God false?
I guess only Christians can ask a good question like this.
A god is false when the theology about that god is incomplete and is logically flawed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1141 by Phat, posted 08-20-2020 3:23 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1164 of 1444 (881259)
08-20-2020 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1144 by jar
08-20-2020 7:42 AM


Re: Is This How You Treated Each Other On The Porch Discussions?
Are you afraid of talking to me now?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1144 by jar, posted 08-20-2020 7:42 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1166 by jar, posted 08-20-2020 6:44 PM Juvenissun has replied
 Message 1168 by Phat, posted 08-20-2020 10:06 PM Juvenissun has not replied
 Message 1213 by Phat, posted 08-23-2020 3:28 PM Juvenissun has not replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1165 of 1444 (881260)
08-20-2020 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1159 by AnswersInGenitals
08-20-2020 3:17 PM


Re: Difference between Jar and Phat
Jar says, "I'll believe it when I see it"
Phat says, "I'll see it when I believe it".
Interesting. In that case, Jar is a normal person, and Phat is a prophet.
In particular, Jar would have hard time to tell true/false in today's world. He would be absolutely confused and lost. A wise person today should be "I'll doubt it when I see it".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1159 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 08-20-2020 3:17 PM AnswersInGenitals has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1174 by ringo, posted 08-21-2020 12:36 PM Juvenissun has not replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1175 of 1444 (881297)
08-21-2020 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1166 by jar
08-20-2020 6:44 PM


Re: Is This How You Treated Each Other On The Porch Discussions?
Busy talking to adults.
There is absolutely NOTHING you could do for a real god.
May be you should think more than talk.
Can a three-year-old do anything FOR his father? Does a happy smile from a baby do anything to his mother?
Your fundamental problem: you do not know what God is. (I am sorry, I assume you know what a father/mother is)
Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1166 by jar, posted 08-20-2020 6:44 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1176 by jar, posted 08-21-2020 8:16 PM Juvenissun has replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1177 of 1444 (881299)
08-21-2020 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1173 by ringo
08-21-2020 12:31 PM


Re: Is This How You Treated Each Other On The Porch Discussions?
As Jesus said elsewhere, you don't love God or serve God by mouthing, "Lord! Lord!"
Give you another logic lesson:
When a person cried: "Lord, Lord";
he could be an unbeliever, like you are. Or,
he could be a faithful believer, like I am.
Your interpretation to what Jesus says is FALSE.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1173 by ringo, posted 08-21-2020 12:31 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1180 by Phat, posted 08-21-2020 8:51 PM Juvenissun has replied
 Message 1187 by ringo, posted 08-22-2020 12:27 PM Juvenissun has replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1178 of 1444 (881300)
08-21-2020 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1176 by jar
08-21-2020 8:16 PM


Re: Is This How You Treated Each Other On The Porch Discussions?
No one knows what God is. They can only know about the god that they create and that exists only in their imagination.
The Bible says many many things human can NOT create and can NOT imagine. Do you know that? I can easily give you some examples.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1176 by jar, posted 08-21-2020 8:16 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1182 by jar, posted 08-21-2020 9:07 PM Juvenissun has replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1184 of 1444 (881322)
08-22-2020 6:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1180 by Phat
08-21-2020 8:51 PM


Re: Is This How You Treated Each Other On The Porch Discussions?
Juvenissun, you have to understand ringos basic argument. Like jar, he believes that Christianity, God, Jesus, and the characters in the Bible were invented by humans.
That is a very common faith among unbelievers.
One thing I am trying to do is to falsify that idea. Christianity CAN NOT be figured out by human wisdom. It is an impossible task.
See, Jar is not even dare to respond to my challenge.
Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.
Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.
Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1180 by Phat, posted 08-21-2020 8:51 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1185 of 1444 (881324)
08-22-2020 6:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1182 by jar
08-21-2020 9:07 PM


Re: Is This How You Treated Each Other On The Porch Discussions?
The Bible (and there is no such thing as The Bible) says lots of silly, contradictory and fantasy stuff.
Extremely ignorant understanding.
I challenge you to give just ONE such "stuff". It will hit you back with profound knowledge and wisdom in the Bible.
You can run away with this challenge by ignoring me. But the challenge will stand before you as long as you do not believe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1182 by jar, posted 08-21-2020 9:07 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1190 by ringo, posted 08-22-2020 12:47 PM Juvenissun has replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1196 of 1444 (881360)
08-22-2020 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1187 by ringo
08-22-2020 12:27 PM


Re: Is This How You Treated Each Other On The Porch Discussions?
Those who cry Lord, Lord, may or may not be believers.
That is a True statement.
I can see you like to argue. Please follow basic logic when you do that. Otherwise, it becomes a False prejudice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1187 by ringo, posted 08-22-2020 12:27 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1204 by ringo, posted 08-23-2020 9:37 AM Juvenissun has not replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1197 of 1444 (881361)
08-22-2020 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1195 by AnswersInGenitals
08-22-2020 5:17 PM


Re: Proof God has no free will?
One of the silliest fables in the bible is the whole story of the Fall. If God didn’t want Adam or Eve to eat the Fruit Of the Tree Of Knowledge (FOTOK), why did he put the tree in the garden of eden?
On the exact opposite, what God does in that case is absolute essential to Christianity. Nothing in Christianity is more significant and important than that.
God let Adam and Eve to make the choice. That is the whole point. They did not make that mistaken choice for a very very long time. And they will not make that mistake until they were tempted to do so. Every bit of details in this very very precise and critical descriptions are vitally important in Christianity.
There will be no Christianity without that decision which appeared "silly" to you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1195 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 08-22-2020 5:17 PM AnswersInGenitals has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1200 by jar, posted 08-22-2020 7:56 PM Juvenissun has replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1198 of 1444 (881362)
08-22-2020 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1192 by jar
08-22-2020 4:01 PM


Re: Is This How You Treated Each Other On The Porch Discussions?
Address the issue Phat.
The God you and the Apologists market foreknowingly CREATES people who will be damned regardless of what they do.
I assume you do not know what "damned" means. That makes your issue meaningless.
If you mistakenly think damned people will "suffer", you are wrong. Many of them won't. So many of they are not damned (according to your definition, even you never said what that is).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1192 by jar, posted 08-22-2020 4:01 PM jar has not replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1199 of 1444 (881363)
08-22-2020 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1190 by ringo
08-22-2020 12:47 PM


Re: Is This How You Treated Each Other On The Porch Discussions?
I don't know if jar is speaking to you, so I'll give you one: Talking snake. It's just silly to think it was an actual talking snake.
I think jar is afraid of talking to me. I keep picking on him fatally.
There ARE angelic beings described in the Bible. You may wonder how do those angels look like? Yes, one of them look like a snake at that particular time (it may look differently at other time, they are powerful beings). So it is not surprised at all that the angelic snake can talk.
Sorry, this is not a science forum. Otherwise, I won't say the above. But, take it a little bit back, do you believe some human can communicate with snakes (and many other animals) today? That is a way of "talk".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1190 by ringo, posted 08-22-2020 12:47 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1205 by ringo, posted 08-23-2020 9:48 AM Juvenissun has replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1206 of 1444 (881396)
08-23-2020 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1200 by jar
08-22-2020 7:56 PM


Re: Proof God has no free will?
it is the Serpent that tells the truth and the God that lies or at best tells half truths and made up stuff.
Where does God not tell the whole truth? How do you define "die" or "death"? When Adam and Eve lived in the Garden, they are immortal. How could they "die"?
Your fault is entire due to a very foggy understanding about Christian terminology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1200 by jar, posted 08-22-2020 7:56 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1208 by jar, posted 08-23-2020 10:43 AM Juvenissun has replied

  
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