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Author | Topic: Free will vs Omniscience | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
FLRW Member (Idle past 44 days) Posts: 54 Joined: |
“Gott mit uns” (‘God is with us’) was printed on the belt buckles of German soldiers in WWI, and WWII.
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Phat Member Posts: 14965 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: |
So? In God We Trust is printed on American money. Simply printing Gods name somewhere does not mean that God is anymore than a symbol adopted by the people whom etched or printed it.
I believe that God can be individually known but, as ringo often mentions, simply mouthing "Lord, Lord" is no guarantee that you know Him any better than an atheist in a foxhole who, upon getting shot, cries "Oh God!". I might rethink the idea that God does not know everyone, but the reason I initially stated it is due to the idea that God has said in the Bible to certain individuals, "Depart from me, I never knew you". Could it be that not all know God? I would assert that all know ABOUT God. Whether or not we believe in Him is another matter and whether or not we DO what He commands is still another matter. Edited by Phat, : No reason given. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
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jar Member Posts: 33184 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
Think Phat.
In you example those told to depart did know Jesus. It was Jesus that did not know them.
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Phat Member Posts: 14965 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: |
If the goats were Christians whom He never knew, why would they even have the importation to do anything? Ringo would claim that they likely would sit around braying Lord, Lord....but that implies that churches are full of posers trying simply to fit in and look spiritual to each other. I know that had I never experienced the salvation experience I would never even want to hang around a church. I suppose you could argue that all humans are aware of "the charge" due to the gift of knowing good and evil. I argue, however, that it takes that inner awareness of the reality of His existence to even give me the desire to share this stuff with others, (arguing endlessly with some Edited by Phat, : punk tu a shun "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
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jar Member Posts: 33184 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
Not quite Phat; ALL of the Goats are followers of Jesus, proto-Christians.
LOL. It 'splains it in the story Phat. Read the story. It is directly explained.
Share what stuff Phat? Preaching is worthless. It is only doing that has any value and the value is based in what is done, not why it was done or who it was done for or any of the other nonsense that the Apologist Shils market.
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Phat Member Posts: 14965 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: |
OK lets have a look at it again. The GOATS:
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
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jar Member Posts: 33184 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
LOL But that is NOT what the story says, is it? Again, like all the Apologists you just make up shit to deny what is actually written and then claim to be Biblical Christians. You and the CCoI are so pathetic.
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Phat Member Posts: 14965 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: |
Oh stop. I have fed and clothed people and do so to this day. I visited many in prison. My point is that I did favor the youth when I visited prisons....but I have also ministered to the least of these. You really need to get off your soapbox concerning the pathetic state of the CCoI. You have an irrational disgust regarding "them". I cant figure out if you are simply mad that they believe the way they do or whether you are disgusted that they dont feed anybody or visit prisoins, but you better back off of me...ive likely done more of that stuff than you have. And I'm not boasting....its simply what Ive done since becoming a Christian in 1993. It did take me a few years to actually feel the need to do anything, I will admit.
But im not looking to impress Jesus. I do what I do just because its what I feel needs doing. Ringo claims I dont do what Jesus says to do, but I fail to see where I fall short...perhaps you know. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
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jar Member Posts: 33184 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
And as always you change the subject to avoid actually admitting what is actually written in the Bible.
You can't follow a topic or address what is presented to you and can only continue to deny reality and instead either change the subject or run away. Pathetic.
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Phat Member Posts: 14965 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: |
You insist upon pushing your warped (critically thinking derived and void of any Godly inspiration) Theology upon the Forum, as usual. Before we go any further, however, lets return to the topic. I read an argument and a refutation of the argument regarding the nature of omniscience and free will.
quote:You will argue that if "the God" has foreknowledge that humans will end up choosing unwisely and thus ending up damned, then that God is evil and should be opposed. Am I correct or did I add to your argument? "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
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jar Member Posts: 33184 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
Almost. If "the God" having foreknowledge that humans will end up choosing unwisely still creates the human that thus ends up damned, then that God is pure evil and must be condemned and opposed. But everything in the refutation you quoted is just classic conman spiel from classic conmen; utterly stupid and should be laughed off the stage if tried. quote: That is simply classic attempts to avoid and get around reality, reason and honesty. Edited by jar, : fix quote box
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Phat Member Posts: 14965 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: |
And when you say "that God is pure evil and must be condemned and opposed" "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
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Phat Member Posts: 14965 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: |
Actually...in thinking about what you said, I can see a way to agree with you to a degree.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
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Tangle Member Posts: 8071 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.4
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You've heard that argument spelled out by all of us here, several times a year for several years. It's not hard, in fact it's blindingly obvious, how come you're only just seeing it? If you are. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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jar Member Posts: 33184 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
No Phat, the Apologists try to market that but it is NOT what is said in the Bible. The God in Genesis 1 might be said to be all good but is also not omniscient and is aloof and totally distant from and unconnected from all of what is created. The God in Genesis 2&3 does lie or avoid telling the truth while the Serpent always tells the truth throughout the story. That God is also not omniscient. The issue is that you do not accept the Bible as actually being authoritative or even saying what is actually written and insist on creating the God and Bible you desire.
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