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Author | Topic: Should we teach both evolution and religion in school? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Colbard Member (Idle past 3419 days) Posts: 300 From: Australia Joined: |
NoNukes writes: You are playing in Percy's sandbox, When I mentioned the rules in my world, I was not talking about this forum, which is about .01 % of my day. And I play within those rules as far as I am able, knowing that I don't have any evidence for the majority which, if you really want to know, are not into what I post, and possibly cannot be because of their habits of thinking.It is a lot easier for many to not engage the intellect and just debunk things. They like to remain where they are, no changes. Edited by Colbard, : cough
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Colbard Member (Idle past 3419 days) Posts: 300 From: Australia Joined: |
Pressie writes: Luckily for humanity your rules don't mean anything. You're just one of billions. You're not important.The "rules" of science do work, though. That's why you, as a nobody, are able to communicate with me. Half a world away. On the internet, devised by people who followed the scientitific "rules". Not your rules. My rules don't discourage individuality or inventiveness, but only the opposite.You'll also notice that the internet did not evolve by itself. Kapow !
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Colbard Member (Idle past 3419 days) Posts: 300 From: Australia Joined: |
RAZD writes: you need to provide some valid rational for people to think your argument is credible rather than self-serving fantasy. And if that valid rational is valid, but not to the readers, then according to your system it is not valid, and remains invalid until the rationality of the readers reaches a point where it can rationalize something which they could not before. Is that evolution and progress or what?
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Colbard Member (Idle past 3419 days) Posts: 300 From: Australia Joined: |
Dr Adequate writes: ..You see, as Percy and I have tried to explain to you, the problem with pretty much all your arguments is that they are so general, so abstract, so vague, that they are also arguments against teaching, believing in, or testing students on chemistry, and physics, and indeed geography. Now, perhaps you are a complete intellectual nihilist and wish to reject all knowledge. But if not, then what you need are arguments specific to the particular kinds of knowledge that you wish to reject..This would, of course, be hard work, because you would need to acquire detailed knowledge of the subject matter. Which would in fact be self-defeating, because if you had detailed knowledge of the subject matter, you'd realize you were wrong, that creationism is rubbish and evolution is correct. But then at least you'd be trying. As it is, the fact that your arguments are arguments against teaching or learning anything at all makes them look trivially silly to anyone who does what you apparently have not done --- that is, think about them for a few seconds. Having a whole lot of knowledge is great, and acceptable, but having a little bit of poo in science called the Theory of Evolution and its various offspring is not acceptable. It is possible to have a perverse observational skill due to a wrong idea in the first place. Science does not disprove Creationism at all, the false conclusions of brain washed men do. It depends on how one interprets the evidence.
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Colbard Member (Idle past 3419 days) Posts: 300 From: Australia Joined: |
NoNukes writes: I'm looking forward to seeing your attempts to support your positions with evidence. Isn't that what you told us you would be doing? IMO you are looking forward to leaning your unchallenged preconceived ideas into an area which you are sure will never change your mind, but hopefully annihilate the other. You are sealed by your own choices to remain where you are, and your input will be clearly predictable.
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Colbard Member (Idle past 3419 days) Posts: 300 From: Australia Joined: |
Deerbreh writes: Actually, no. Scientific evidence is not subject to majority rule. It stands or falls according to scientific standards of evidence - experimental design, statistical significance, and peer review. No room for voting or personal opinion there. That answer is part of the evolution/atheist regime. The other half of America does science as well without imbibing swamp stories.
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Colbard Member (Idle past 3419 days) Posts: 300 From: Australia Joined: |
Deerbreh writes: No compromises. The Constitution is clear. The state cannot establish a religion. Creation dogma is a religion. The only way it can be taught in a state run school is in a course about religion - and then one would have to present all of the major creation myths, not just the Hebrew one. Would actually make an interesting class. True, evolution is also a religion, the ancient religion of Baal worship, which is essentially humanism, the ideas of humanity above any revelation or God.
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Colbard Member (Idle past 3419 days) Posts: 300 From: Australia Joined: |
Coyote writes: But your real problem is that creationism does not "prove" itself, but must rely on belief, dogma, scripture and other fluff. There's no evidence that can stand up to testing. If there were, there would not be some 40,000 different brands, flavors, denominations, etc. of Christianity alone. If there were some way of testing claims with evidence you would have convergence rather than schism. In that, religion is the exact opposite of science whether you like it or not. That's true. Firstly the 3,000 year old book is not wrong.But you would have to prove which versions of the Bible are genuine, and what religions measure up to its standards. Virtually none. The reason there is confusion and schism out there, compared to relative uniformity in science, is because science demands rationality, however it is limited to the rationality of human beings. Religion is part of a conflict between Christ and Satan, of which all religions, both pagan and christian are practically under the guide of Satan who has masterminded the state of confusion, as well as the animosity between genuine science and matters of faith. It can be rationally proven in a few sentences from the Bible that every religion is false, yet many persuasions of Christendom claim this book as their guide.It is a total farce that works well in favor continued ignorance. So in essence we have both science and religion divorcing people from God the creator. One through unbelief or humanism, the other through false doctrines or the doctrines of men - which is also humanism. Self worship is the key fault of the original apostate in heaven, and he has well succeeded in not only dragging a third of the angels with him, but the entire world. So really, we should not teach evolution or religion in school, but faith and reasoning.
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Colbard Member (Idle past 3419 days) Posts: 300 From: Australia Joined: |
Percy writes: You stated in another thread that you were going to begin seeking scientific support for what you say - what happened? Someone just complained that what I was saying was off topic, well I thought that if matters of faith were in the discussion surely its on topic. Faith should go hand in hand with reason. You learn the alphabet by faith, you reason out the applications in words. Science has gone on a tour after rejecting initial training in faith, so it cannot know the facts that have been established, but it is left to progress from where it started, from nothing. So to prove something from science which will take infinity to figure out, it can not be done. You ask for evidence for things that are obvious, but admit you are not interested because you are in a progress of getting it - your way, the slow way.That's not how education works. You need both faith and reasoning. Your starting point is nature, the natural world. It is a gift of knowledge, it is full of intelligent things, which instead of leading you to the intelligent conclusion of gratitude to an obvious Maker and designer, you go down the path of doubt, analysis, dissections, postulations.Then you have the gall to ask proof of others what you have rejected as evidence in the first place. You need to understand what balance is, before your blindness becomes totally incurable.
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Colbard Member (Idle past 3419 days) Posts: 300 From: Australia Joined: |
RAZD
In essence you are saying? That only what you think is valid? I don't mind an opinionated man, because at least he has one.
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Colbard Member (Idle past 3419 days) Posts: 300 From: Australia Joined: |
Ringo writes: You're almost half right. Try it this way: "True, evolution is... the ideas of humanity above any revelation or God."The reason the theory of evolution is so successful is because it works. Revelations seldom do. And there are so many conflicting revelations. Science works by weeding out the revelations (and I use the word `weed` deliberately). That leaves observations that can be confirmed repeatedly. And of course `humanism`is a good thing. If there was a spiritual battle going on as I mentioned, then revelation would be most screwed with. I believe in the goodness of humanity too, but I'm wary of humanism.
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Colbard Member (Idle past 3419 days) Posts: 300 From: Australia Joined:
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RAZD writes: That if there is a choice between two views:one is a conclusion based on evidence and logical validity, the other is opinion with no justification, no rationale, no substance; That I will take\accept the first over the second as being more valid\reasonable\persuasive every time. Thus between the multiple lines of conscilient evidence showing that the earth is old -- very very old, and your bald opinion\belief that the earth is 6000 years old, I find the old age credible and compelling and that your opinion\belief is rather silly. And further I find that when you have no explanation how tree rings older than 6000 years can exist on a 6000 year old earth, that your opinion to be delusional: You keep saying I am delusional, do you want it to stick or haven't you yet figured out that an insane person won't listen?How sharp is your logic then? Do you have any evidence, logical evidence of course, for love? I have heard of weird relationships... No, we should teach faith (that works by love) and reasoning in school. Edited by Colbard, : spelling
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Colbard Member (Idle past 3419 days) Posts: 300 From: Australia Joined: |
Ringo writes: In the end, humanism is all we really have; it's the only thing we can count on. This world, how is it going? If I lived in a world of death and dysfunction, and I was offered eternal life, I would take it even if I had no proof of it, I have nothing to lose do I? If you fell down a well and survived without a scratch and someone passed down a rope, would you make a loop and be hauled up or would you make a noose and hang yourself?
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Colbard Member (Idle past 3419 days) Posts: 300 From: Australia Joined: |
Dwise1,
Most of science is correct, but it has wrong theories, wrong conclusions drawn from findings. In religion, there is confusion of truth and error mixed in, - a whole lot of superstitions and false doctrines. You jump from one band wagon to the other picking and choosing whatever contradicts to suit your argument. If you don't like love or God and you'd rather literally hang onto whatever gives you a thrill, then don't transfer your mental and emotional incompetence onto others, by insisting they are delusional. To say that all of science is always correct is a violation of its own reasoning anyway. Religions have their own dogmas, like a boat without a rudder. Science has nature as its reference book - I hope.Religion should have the Bible as its reference book - I hope. Both have gone way off the rails in some of their interpretations.
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Colbard Member (Idle past 3419 days) Posts: 300 From: Australia Joined: |
Coyote writes: It's the ideal scam! Pay me now for what I promise that you'll get when you die. If you had to pay for it, it would be a scam. And if you chose to pay, who's the fool then anyway? Education should be free don't you think? Religions definitely are the worst scams.
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