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Author
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Topic: Gun Control Again
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Re: feigned concern
Why are people acting like there are? Am I way off base that they just don't like guns and are looking for emotive things to distract you from their real motivations? Well, you haven't answered my question. Why is it that they "just don't like guns"? If their choice is arbitrary, why did they pick on guns? For example, here's a story about anti-gun campaigner Neil Heslin, whose six-year old son was murdered at Sandy Hook. As we know, he doesn't care about people dying; he doesn't care about preventing innocent deaths. So why --- it's a complete mystery --- why did he arbitrarily decide to campaign against guns rather than poodles or marmalade?
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Re: feigned concern
It could be from culture, irrational fear, they don't like rednecks or gangsters, they've been influenced by some media, or they know someone who was killed by a gun or someone robbed them at gunpoint. I dunno, there could be all kinds of reasons. How about, they don't like mass murder? That would explain it. It would also explain other phenomena that would otherwise be baffling, like why 9/11 made people sad.
He probably does care about people dying and preventing innocent deaths. I've never said that people can't care about those. Well, you said that they don't. As you are not telepathic, I assumed that you had derived this uncontrovertible truth from an a priori argument.
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Re: feigned concern
Guns cause such a relatively low number of innocent deaths, that focusing on it under the guise of preventing innocent deaths, makes you look insincere because there are so many other things that you could focus on that would actually have an appreciable effect. Yes, for example I could be in favor of universal healthcare, higher taxes on tobacco products, universal vaccination, mandatory seatbelt laws, sex education that includes how to put on a condom ... oh, wait, I am. If the only way I wanted preventable deaths to be prevented was by keeping assault weapons out of the hands of lunatics, then your point would not be completely stupid. But it isn't, so it is.
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 2512 of 5179 (729569)
06-14-2014 1:07 AM
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 2532 of 5179 (730302)
06-26-2014 11:07 PM
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Well, this is interesting.
Bad Guys With Guns Hold Up Patrons Outside Gun Ranges, Take Their Guns Police are asking for the public's help tracking down the second suspect responsible for robbing gun range customers of at least nine weapons and shooting a 67-year-old man. See, if you've ever wanted to know how to tell a good guy with a gun from a bad guy with a gun, here it is: the bad guy is the first guy to take his gun out and point it at the good guy, who is then helpless.
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 2534 of 5179 (730369)
06-27-2014 2:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 2527 by ramoss
06-26-2014 2:41 PM
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And in further gun news, a 14 inch howizer was fired at a gun show, damaging a house 3 miles away. Stupid homeowner should have had his own howitzer to protect him. That's how it works, right?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2527 by ramoss, posted 06-26-2014 2:41 PM | | ramoss has not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 2544 of 5179 (730551)
06-28-2014 9:39 PM
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Reply to: Message 2543 by marc9000
06-28-2014 9:08 PM
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There are certainly countries such as the UK where the use of firearms by police is strictly limited. It is reserved to trained firearms officers, who are issued with guns on a per-incident basis rather than carrying them around on the offchance. As a result of which:
And the number of times armed officers fired their guns in a year in England and Wales, according to the figures reported by the government, can sometimes be counted on one hand. During 2010-2011, police "discharged a conventional firearm in three incidents," a drop from six such incidents in 2009-2010, according to data published by the British Parliament. This does not seem to result in a greater number of UK police officers being intentionally killed in the line of duty. There are some figures here.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2543 by marc9000, posted 06-28-2014 9:08 PM | | marc9000 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2548 by marc9000, posted 06-29-2014 8:20 PM | | Dr Adequate has replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 2549 of 5179 (730695)
06-29-2014 8:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 2548 by marc9000
06-29-2014 8:20 PM
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I understand all that, and if the U.S. could simply pass one massive gun control law that would instantly transform its gun violence statistics to those of the U.K, I would be for it. But the societies are too different - many generations in the U.K. up to today have lived their entire lives with guns practically non-existent, while much of the U.S. has had a keen interest in guns for many generations. That interest can't be erased with laws. What we need is a massive publicity campaign to interest them in something else, such as crochet. You wouldn't believe how hard it is to kill someone with a crochet hook. Take it from me, what with all the effort and the mess and the shouting for help it's hardly worth killing them at all.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2548 by marc9000, posted 06-29-2014 8:20 PM | | marc9000 has not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 2551 of 5179 (730698)
06-29-2014 8:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 2550 by marc9000
06-29-2014 8:44 PM
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One thing that might help is helmet cameras. Apparently when police wear them, the rates of complaints against police go way down, presumably as a combination of the police knowing that they can be held responsible and of the public knowing that their complaints can be checked. I don't know what effect it has on policemen shooting people; I can guess, I haven't seen statistics. Training is also important, I've read some interesting stuff on this. Police are already trained to shoot, and indeed not to shoot, but what can make a big difference is to train them not to get into situations where shooting starts to look like a good option.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2550 by marc9000, posted 06-29-2014 8:44 PM | | marc9000 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2554 by marc9000, posted 06-29-2014 9:11 PM | | Dr Adequate has replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 2555 of 5179 (730703)
06-29-2014 9:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 2554 by marc9000
06-29-2014 9:11 PM
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Ah, here's a study. Body cameras correlate with a 50% reduction in "use-of-force, which encompasses physical force more than a basic control or compliance hold, including use of OC spray, baton, Taser, canine bite or firearm". I don't know about cost, but it can't be that much --- if they can put a camera in my phone, they can put one on a policeman.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2554 by marc9000, posted 06-29-2014 9:11 PM | | marc9000 has seen this message but not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 2573 of 5179 (732195)
07-03-2014 9:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 2571 by marc9000
07-03-2014 8:40 PM
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As one example from your link in Message 2537, how many more teenage boys will be hiding under teenage girls beds if they have nothing to fear from her dad in a gun restrictive state? I'd rather live in a moral state, with fewer abortions and welfare moms. Do you know how many teenage boys you'd need to shoot to stop teenage boys from being interested in teenage girls?
All of them.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2571 by marc9000, posted 07-03-2014 8:40 PM | | marc9000 has replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 2575 of 5179 (732197)
07-03-2014 10:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 2574 by marc9000
07-03-2014 9:50 PM
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It's not a case of interest, it's a case of acting on that interest. And they'd have to be pretty much certain of getting shot to not act on that interest when given the opportunity.
It seems like if anything there's a correlation between teenage pregnancy and people getting shot.
A lot of people want to live in a society where there's law and order. But then a lot of people want to live in a society where the police don't shoot citizens. It's quite the dilemma, isn't it? Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2574 by marc9000, posted 07-03-2014 9:50 PM | | marc9000 has replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 2593 of 5179 (732238)
07-04-2014 11:54 PM
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Reply to: Message 2584 by marc9000
07-04-2014 9:26 PM
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Teenage pregnancy, people getting shot, and the U.S./Mexican border. The same political party that is illegal immigrant friendly, blames hardware (guns) for the increased violence illegal immigration causes. Imagine that. I had always supposed the South Carolina, for example, and Tennessee, were not all that close to the Mexican border. Maybe you should analyse the figures using a methodology other than jerking your knee. Shall we have a look at another map?
Seems to be quite a dilemma for my opponents in this thread, since there have been no direct comments thus far about my link detailing the police shooting of an unarmed 19 year old girl. We're still waiting for you to decide whether you're for it or against it. Your ramblings about the "dilemma" it poses your opponents are cryptic to those of us who have the good fortune not to live in your head. Perhaps you could expand on this bizarre fantasy; or perhaps you will on maturer reflection discover that you would look slightly less stupid if you kept it to yourself. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2584 by marc9000, posted 07-04-2014 9:26 PM | | marc9000 has replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 2601 of 5179 (732273)
07-05-2014 6:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 2597 by ramoss
07-05-2014 8:44 AM
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No.. 98%. The other 2% are interested in teenage men I sacrificed accuracy for snappiness. Can you find it in your heart to forgive me?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2597 by ramoss, posted 07-05-2014 8:44 AM | | ramoss has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2602 by ramoss, posted 07-05-2014 8:00 PM | | Dr Adequate has not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 2617 of 5179 (732294)
07-05-2014 11:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 2604 by marc9000
07-05-2014 9:06 PM
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Very good, neither is northern Kentucky. But even a liberal with their eyes tightly shut can't help but notice the significant increase in the Mexican population in this area. Over only the past 15 years or so, we've seen Mexican restaurants spring up all over the place, I can't go to my local food store more than once or twice without seeing a few of them in the aisle gibber-jabering among themselves in Spanish. I don't think there's a landscaping company anywhere around here that doesn't have an almost exclusive Mexican workforce. Why yes, your map shows my county of Kentucky to be at the 2.5% to 16.2% range. Must be closer to 16.2 in this case. South Carolina has lots of counties the same shade of yellow as mine, and it's a lot warmer there, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are some Mexicans there, with some South Carolinians that aren't too crazy about it. But never mind, you don't believe that. South Carolina has more gun violence than the heaven-on-earth New York because SC has more armed citizens - that illegal immigration has nothing to do with gun violence. But wait - you're about to go ballistic and tell me you didn't say that at all! There often seems to be a point in threads you participate in where you don't have an opinion at all - all you do is insult. Absence of correlation is a pretty good indication of absence of causation. Also, I don't see why illegal immigrants should be particularly shoot-y. Just because Hispanic people commit horrifying atrocities such as opening Mexican restaurants and "gibber-jabering among themselves in Spanish", that doesn't necessarily prove that they're particularly trigger-happy.
Oh you speak for everyone, and none of you has yet figured out that I don't like it when police shoot unarmed 19 year old girls? Well, you did write as follows:
In the same way, (regarding my link about the policeman shooting the 19 year old girl because she refused to stop), I'd bet thousands of teenagers all across northern Kentucky will now think twice before they'll thumb their nose at a policeman who tells them to stop. Gun control advocates are always quick to point to the U.K. concerning their lack of guns and gun violence, but the issue goes way deeper than that when we consider, as only one example, how often teenagers run from the police there and get by with it. A lot of people want to live in a society where there's law and order. Perhaps you are not wholeheartedly in favor of this shooting, but you were quick to point out the upside.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2604 by marc9000, posted 07-05-2014 9:06 PM | | marc9000 has not replied |
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