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Author | Topic: Gun Control Again | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member
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True, but the similarity I had in mind was more along the lines of civilians with a gun who feel scared or threatened, for instance when they hear a noise in the house, not civilians blindly entering someone's house like the police in this case. I understand that Percy. The issue here is that even without worrying about gun control, the police ought to have better tactics than is exhibited here, and getting there would not take an act of Congress, an amendment to the Constitution, etc. Even when approaching a traffic stop, bad tactics vs good tactics can make the difference and can avoid creating a shoot or be shot scenario.
In my view it isn't at all acceptable. To me it's as unacceptable as motorists bearing the majority of risk at a traffic stop. We agree, but in this case, the problem is not that we don't want the police to investigate, but that when they do, even when they have guns, that they ought at least to take steps not to shoot the homeowner. Knock and announce helps some. Unlike the situation at the traffic stop, the person in his own home might well be armed and within his rights to shoot intruders. Imagine if called the cops because you saw an armed robber breaking into your neighbors house, but by the time the police got there, the crook had bolted and the cops shot your barbecue buddy. Is that something you ought to consider before you call the cops? That the situation is just going to get worse? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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Percy Member Posts: 22502 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
NoNukes writes: The issue here is that even without worrying about gun control, the police ought to have better tactics... Agreed. But my point involving bell shaped curves means we'll never achieve uniformly "better tactics." A spectrum of differently appropriate and effective tactics that result in some number of negative outcomes will always be employed.
In my view it isn't at all acceptable. To me it's as unacceptable as motorists bearing the majority of risk at a traffic stop. We agree, but in this case, the problem is not that we don't want the police to investigate, but that when they do, even when they have guns, that they ought at least to take steps not to shoot the homeowner. Yes, of course they *ought* to employ tactics that reduce the odds of shooting the homeowner, but the success with which they do that will follow a bell shaped curve. Better to take away the guns. I understand that isn't possible today - I'm just saying. --Percy
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vimesey Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
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Thousands of guns go missing from armory's and police arms storage each year in the US and the UK. Please don't conflate the UK with the US, with regard to guns. I haven't been able to find any statistics for police guns going missing (I suspect it's pretty much zero - armed UK police officers form a tiny percentage of the overall personnel, and they are incredibly highly regulated), but this article indicates that a grand total of 56 guns went missing in 4 years from the UK armed forces: Gone AWOL: How deadly firearms are lost or stolen from the Ministry of Defence every MONTH under Coalition | Daily Mail Online (I know, it's the Daily Mail, but the figures themselves are official government figures). I realise that it helps those in favour of gun ownership to paint a frightening, dystopian vision of a country bereft of widespread gun ownership - but the UK is one of many modern countries which, very inconveniently, manage to be perfectly decent, free democracies, which don't allow widespread gun ownership. We've got loads of rights and stuff - we'd even be really happy about life if we didn't have such bloody awful weather all the time 😊 So do avoid conflating the UK with the US when it comes to guns. I'll just call you on it and remind you that a happy, modern, law abiding democracy doesn't need guns.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Agreed. But my point involving bell shaped curves means we'll never achieve uniformly "better tactics." Perhaps there are other behavior principles to which you might apply that point. No behavioral fix is going to be 100%.
I understand that isn't possible today - I'm just saying. Exactly, Percy. I think that's a point I made in my post. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Teen takes selfie with a gun, accidentally shoots self | CNN
quote: Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Just some follow up of that shooting in SE Atlanta
quote: Really? Neighbor rendered first aid? Where the @&$# were the police?
quote: So we went into the first tan house we saw even though the actual house was further down the street? Completely unacceptable even on a bell curve. The problems only start with being at the wrong house.
quote: Grrr! Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1532 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined:
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vimesey writes: I'll just call you on it and remind you that a happy, modern, law abiding democracy doesn't need guns. Just the pubs. "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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vimesey Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
Ironically, the first pub I bought a pint in was called "The Gun Barrels" (named for Birmingham's historical gun manufacturing). :-)
Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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Percy Member Posts: 22502 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Early this morning Andrew Cuomo's first deputy counsel was struck in the head by a random bullet in front of a Rite Aid pharmacy in Crown Heights in Brooklyn, NYC (GOV. CUOMO'S FIRST DEPUTY COUNSEL - CAREY GABAY - SHOT DURING PRE-J'OUVERT FESTIVAL VIOLENCE). He's in the hospital in critical condition.
If he'd been packing this never would have happened. --Percy
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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A 19-year-old Houston man, a day ahead of starting community college, accidentally killed himself Tuesday while taking selfies with a gun, police said. "Taking selfies with a gun"? Well, I think I see where he went wrong.
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vimesey Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
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Presumably they've closed submissions for this year's Darwin Award early.
Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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"Selfie with a gun" could become the new euphemism for suicide.
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Percy Member Posts: 22502 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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"This one's the camera, this one's the gun. This one's the camera, this one's the gun. This one's...BANG!"
--Percy
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Astrophile Member (Idle past 156 days) Posts: 92 From: United Kingdom Joined: |
ICANT writes: You could take the guns out of the hands of honest people This reminds me of Slender's remark in 'The Merry Wives of Windsor': 'if I be drunk I'll be drunk with those that have the fear of God, and not with drunken knaves'.
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3991 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 6.9
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Percy writes: "This one's the camera, this one's the gun. This one's the camera, this one's the gun. This one's...BANG!" In basic training, we learned not to call our M16s guns. They are rifles. If you made that mistake, you might be required to clutch your M16 over your head with one hand, your genitals with the other, shaking each on cue while declaiming 50 times or more:
quote: It was only half bad-- --too many shakes of one, too few of the other. That young man just needed better training and a better notion of fun."If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
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