Summations Only

vimesey writes: "Your turn - should we try to protect our citizens from terrorist attack ?"Yes, you should do it by not producing more terrorists.A gibbering fool would think else-wise.

Nah, I reckon they're trying to escape from tens of thousands of guys with Kalashnikovs, who want to rape them, throw them off buildings, burn them alive, bury them alive, and cut off their genitals.But hey, maybe your reason for them fleeing is good too.

I grew up in a country which experienced terrorism for decades. I live in Birmingham, and have drunk in one of the pubs which was bombed. The route to peace is incredibly long, if possible at all, and is not as simple as we would all wish it to be. Whilst we pursue it, the terrorists persist. And whilst they persist, we should do our best to protect innocent lives through sensible security measures, such as anti-aircaft guns on a roof or two - or SAM batteries in nearby neighbourhoods.

vimesey writes: "The route to peace is incredibly long, if possible at all, and is not as simple as we would all wish it to be."Curious, even with the facts below staring at you in the eye, your illogical reply sounds something like Faith would write.vimesey, I know you are usually a good, intelligent, moral guy. Please re-think this one.

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UK training Saudi forces used to crush Arab spring
UK training Saudi forces used to crush Arab spring | Saudi Arabia | The Guardian

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Saudis’ UK-made war jets outnumber RAF’s
Saudis’ UK-made war jets outnumber RAF’s

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Britain urged to stop providing weapons to Saudi Arabia
Amnesty calls for suspension of arms transfers as group says it has evidence of war crimes in Yemen conflict
Britain urged to stop providing weapons to Saudi Arabia | Arms trade | The Guardian

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Iraq crisis: How Saudi Arabia helped Isis take over the north of the country
Iraq crisis: How Saudi Arabia helped Isis take over the north of the country | The Independent | The Independent

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I know you and I see eye to eye on many things. We don't differ a great deal. But you are more idealistic than I am dronestar.That doesn't make me evil, stupid or immoral. It just means that I come at it a different way to you.

Eliminating cultures? Do you plan to involve IG Farben in that project?

Via Zyklon B?No.When the west (USA, Britain, Israel) bombs nations/peoples/cultures back to the stone age, non-military family and friends are murdered. Their surviving kin are angry. Employment, food, medicine, and clean water become scarce. To survive, they join radical violent groups. Sometimes they attack the west.The west can continue spending billions of dollars bombing them, supplying the region with even more weapons, keep supporting human right violating dictators/nations (Saudi Arabia, Hussein, bin Laden, Gaddaffi, etc.,) or we can use the money to help build/support functioning democracies.Getting back on topic . . .When the elite deprive minorities of dignity, jobs, housing, food, medicine, education, . . . minorities become angry. To survive, they join violent gangs or sell drugs. Sometimes they attack non-minorities.We can continue voting for politicians who support the 1%ers/banks/military/pharmacuetical/insurance industries, or we can start voting for candidates who will spend money on infrastructure, education, health care, city-jobs which will help eliminate poverty and causes of violence and GUN cultures.Why does this seem so difficult to sell to most people? Is vimesay correct? . . . only a fanatical idealist like me can see things this way?Edited by dronestar, : added ringo quote for clarityEdited by dronestar, : added pharmacuetical/insurance

What does a fanatical idealist do to sell the people on their view? How does a budding fanatical idealist work in this present system that would give them realistic hope of change?Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Hi AZPaul3, Offer a choice of action with a "better outcome." Unfortunately, a "better outcome" is a relative term . . . "The present system"?To the military industrial complex, my proposed outcome is bad, very bad. To the politicians who take money from military industrial complex and pharmaceutical company lobbyists, my proposed outcome is bad, very bad. To people who prefer to hate and kill non-white, non-christian peoples, my proposed outcome is bad, very bad. To the people who vote "conservative" who are happy with the disproportionate amount of minorities that are in prison, my proposed outcome is bad, very bad. To the people who vote "conservative" who are happy with the deprivation of jobs, health care, education to minorities and immigrants, my proposed outcome is bad, very bad.Currently, what I am selling, people do not want to buy. Perhaps after society reaches some critical threshold (global warming, water scarcity, oil scarcity, food scarcity), things then may be different.(Alas, the captain of the titanic thought his options were rather limited AFTER hitting the iceberg.)

No flyers to hand out in the park? No meetings of like-minded people to plan (read non-violent) strategies to at least make some progress no matter how small? No small steps in the relentless headwinds of opposition? So you do nothing to advance your cause but complain? And how are you doing that?I would think, at the very least, you would be passionate enough to work to support a candidate who may not be full-steam running in your direction but may be sorta almost facing that way. Bernie Sanders comes to mind.If you aren't doing anything to help change things, as futile as that may seem, if all you are going to do is complain then, frankly dronestar, I don't want to hear it.

That's pretty evasive.I agree that it's a special brand of madness to fight the fire on one side of your house while pouring gasoline on the other.Societies create their own monsters, inside and out. Entrenched poverty and racism, greed and indifference are cogs in our sociopath-making machine, and we desperately need to throw clogs in that machine.But I still lock my doors and watch my back.Terrorists want to show that targeted governments cannot protect their citizens. Are you suggesting that those governments should stop trying?

Letters to my reps, letters to the editor, petitions signed, rallies attended. Bernie Sanders? Wow. You just don't get it. Sigh.Do us both a favor, please don't read my future posts.

Easily done.

"Eliminating cultures" sounded more like the former than the latter.

Hey Omni, Indeed (Paris 11/13/15). . . Tommy-boy: Mommy, when I punch the cat in the stomach, it bites me. What can I do so the cat won't bite me?Mommy: Don't punch the cat in the stomach.Tommy-boy: Well, that's pretty evasive.Mommy: Huh?_______________________________________________________ Apparently true . . . I believe Vimesay is suggesting something like this . . . would have prevented this . . . But I do not believe anti-aircraft weaponry on top of rooftops would have prevented the 11/13 massacre in Paris. I am suggesting governments should stop trying ineffective and counter-effective measures in reducing "terrorist" attacks like funding roof-top anti-aircraft weaponry.I am suggesting trying something that nearly all the war-mongering american candidates are not suggesting. Stop de-stabilizing the middle-east/nations by invading stable or democratic countries and stop supplying them with massive amount of weapons. The US and the UK has indirectly given ISIS a king's ransom of weaponry.I am suggesting the US/UK stop supporting dictators like Saudi Arabia . . .

quote:

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UK training Saudi forces used to crush Arab spring
UK training Saudi forces used to crush Arab spring | Saudi Arabia | The Guardian

​

Saudis’ UK-made war jets outnumber RAF’s
Saudis’ UK-made war jets outnumber RAF’s

​

Britain urged to stop providing weapons to Saudi Arabia
Amnesty calls for suspension of arms transfers as group says it has evidence of war crimes in Yemen conflict
Britain urged to stop providing weapons to Saudi Arabia | Arms trade | The Guardian

​

Iraq crisis: How Saudi Arabia helped Isis take over the north of the country
Iraq crisis: How Saudi Arabia helped Isis take over the north of the country | The Independent | The Independent

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The findings at the Nuremburg Trial:

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aggression is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.

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I am suggesting voters stop voting for war-mongerers (Bernie Sanders included). I am suggesting voters demand war-mongerers be put on trial so that future war-mongerers are dissuaded from invading nations.That's what I am suggesting.