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Author | Topic: Gun Control Again | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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LamarNewAge writes: The NRA fully supports EVEYTHING Obama just did. And because the NRA so fully supports Obama's recent actions, on the front page of their website they posted Obama: Commander in Deceit: Dana Loesch strikes back at President Obama's executive order. --Percy
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
The NRA is attempting to change the subject from the actual Obama policy of Obama's executive actions. Many on both the right and left hate what Obama and the NRA just did, and the NRA needs to hide behind the "2nd amendment" issue as a smokescreen.
That link of yours showed the NRA changing the subject. The recent policy action of Obama wasn't even mentioned. Here is a much better indication of where the NRA stands (frankly, I already showed you the Cornyn/NRA proposal of a few months ago but THESE LINKS BELOW show the NRA view of this SPECIFIC Obama action of the past week).
quote: quote: Anyway, the NRA has angered many (libertarian types) on the right for a long time with their criticism that Clinton didn't go far enough in a fascist direction (such as "he hasn't enforced the background check laws already on the books"). Your NRA link was the same old fascist crap ("Clinton or Obama havn't gone far enough yet") that informed people understand as sly support. It's only low-information folks that think it constitutes actual opposition. The NRA is speaking in codes. Telling one group (the uninformed) one thing, and another group another thing. This is typical in the United States (though it happens to some extent everywhere). This is one of those situations that demands a "decoder ring" (as the now old clich goes). Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
The most typical involves the issue of foreign aid, which Americans, especially on the right, oppose monumentally.
Republican politicians are trained to respond a certain way to the legions of constituents that oppose foreign aid (politicians will admit that they can find 10 people in their districts that support foreign aid). The GOP politicians will say "I oppose foreign aid, except to those who are with us 100% of the time" of "I will votes against foreign aid except when our true allies need it in extreme situations". It usually is code for support of foreign aid to Israel (at the very least). Which then leads to treaties which enables support for most foreign aid. Constituents are led to think they oppose almost 100% of foreign aid but the political class, as well as the 1% of Americans who are informed, knows it means support for foreign aid in general. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
You're not seriously claiming that an interview with someone with no official capacity with the NRA gives a more accurate characterization of the NRA position than does the NRA website itself? They aren't leaving much ambiguity here:
--Percy Edited by Percy, : Grammar.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
You're not seriously claiming that an interview with someone with no official capacity with the NRA gives more a more accurate characterization of the NRA position than does the NRA website itself? They aren't leaving much ambiguity here: You are just encouraging LNA to post more of this Obama/NRA conspiracy stuff. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
What part of Obama's action are they challenging?
The only substantive policy change part is Obama's capture of medical records for social security disability (mental health issues require 3-7 years of endless court challenges to "prove" mental disability), and the NRA offered legislation (a few months ago) to reward states that get the medical records to the central Federal database. The NRA has always supported banning people with so-called "mental issues" from owning guns (and blamed the ACLU for preventing such). The NRA has also always complained that people don't get arrested for trying to own a gun when they have a past criminal conviction. "they don't go after those who violate the law and attempt to get a gun... bla bla bla ...IT'S THE PROSECUTION STUPID...bla bla bla Why aren't we prosecuting people trying to buy guns?" The NRA disagrees with nothing here. It's just vague "Obama doesn't respect gun rights and our constitution" "No respect for the 2nd amendment" "No respect for the legislative process" Trickery. NRA has no choice but to slither around this and hope the specifics go away.
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Okay, good point.
--Percy
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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In another isolated incident, again another isolated parent has in an isolated incident killed his isolated child in a way that is absolutely isolated and is just another isolated incident that we shouldn't give a damn about, because it's isolated.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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quote: Heavily armed men with strong opinions ... plus booze. What could go wrong? by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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OK, RAZD, I'll admit that occasionally guns are useful. But one or two cases like this don't disprove the general point.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
quote: The truth is hiding in plain site. The NRA (which doesn't represent truth) really is hiding though.
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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Gun control is unpopular because guns are considered an effective defense. It is imagined that guns make one safer from threats. Pull gun, aim, fire, and the threat is over.
The truth is that guns, even in the hands of highly trained personnel, are a crap shoot for defense. Shoot at a disorderly father brandishing a gun and the bullet might go through his arm and kill his 12-year old daughter standing behind him (Pennsylvania girl, 12, killed after father aims gun at constable). Fire at what sounds like someone breaking into your house and you might kill your son returning home unexpectedly (Cincinnati father shoots, kills son he mistook for intruder). Become mentally unstable and you murder an entire family (Family, neighbors wait for answers after Hilltop fatal shootings). These are just the dramatic stories that make the news. In mostly ones and twos the deaths, murders and suicides mount, reaching more than 30,000 each year. The carnage won't end until people begin thinking of guns not as safety devices but as hand grenades or ticking time bombs that could go off without warning at any time. --Percy
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Never mind.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
These are just the dramatic stories that make the news. In mostly ones and twos the deaths, murders and suicides mount, reaching more than 30,000 each year. The carnage won't end until people begin thinking of guns not as safety devices but as hand grenades or ticking time bombs that could go off without warning at any time. This is Mean World Syndrome fearmongering. "Go off without warning at any time?" Yes, that perfectly describes how guns operate. You make it sound as if they have a will of their own. So lets suppose that we pass the most draconian laws possible and completely ban private ownership of firearms tomorrow. How do you propose to get the guns off the streets after turning law-abiding citizens into criminals overnight? You have the laws now, but you don't have the most important element... the guns. There are twice as many guns in the United States as there are people and a whole lot of very pissed off, armed people. Now what? Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given."Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Hyroglyphx writes: Yes, that perfectly describes how guns operate. You make it sound as if they have a will of their own. I didn't describe guns as hand grenades or ticking time bombs that could go off without warning at any time. I said that the carnage won't end until people begin thinking of guns not as safety devices but as hand grenades or ticking time bombs that could go off without warning at any time. One never knows when someone will become angry or depressed or careless. The guns purchased for safety and self defense are more likely to be used against oneself, one's family and one's friends, and one can never anticipate when or why.
So lets suppose that we pass the most draconian laws possible and completely ban private ownership of firearms tomorrow. How do you propose to get the guns off the streets after turning law-abiding citizens into criminals overnight? Proposing extreme measures that no one is advocating doesn't really help the discussion. The long term goal is to reduce gun ownership. Attitudes will change gradually. --Percy
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