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Author | Topic: Gun Control Again | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
I blame the suicides and mass shootings (as well as the post 1980/1990s obesity epidemic among the poor) on prescription psychotropic drugs and many other factors. I just started a thread on SSRIs and their effect but that is just the tip of the iceberg. My biggest objection to "gun control" is that it includes the issue of forcing children on psychotropic drugs. You are by far the most interesting new poster here. I hope you stay. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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What are the troublesome proposals? Well, is it really necessary to become a federally licensed gun dealer for the occasional sale of a couple of guns? I’ve sold guns to friends, my police chief and a couple of relatives during the past 10 years. Questions like this are disingenuous. There is a world of difference between the guy who has sold a few guns in the past decade and a guy who buys and sells guns on a regular basis to make a profit, and no indication that Obama's proposal addresses anything but the latter. What is clear is that the current enforcement of the law lets a lot of gun traffickers avoid the law. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
You're not seriously claiming that an interview with someone with no official capacity with the NRA gives more a more accurate characterization of the NRA position than does the NRA website itself? They aren't leaving much ambiguity here: You are just encouraging LNA to post more of this Obama/NRA conspiracy stuff. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Never mind.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I suppose we can fix this with a small change to the 'stand and defend your block' laws in Texas.
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Any objections out there to guns that only fire for authorized users? Apparently some 'gun enthusiasts find such technology extremely objectionable. What is a 'smart gun' and why don't we have one? - nj.com
quote: The NRA called these death threats a 'market response'. Apparently some gun nuts are afraid that the use of these weapons will become mandated if the technology works. Also there was a poster in these forums who was afraid that the government could disarm such guns remotely. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
For those interested in such things CNN has a story devoted to these things. If you plan to use them, it might be a good idea to trace the stats to the source material when possible:
U.S. gun violence: The story in graphics | CNN Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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A lot of commentary on the web seems to agree with GDR, e.g.: Bible Hub on Luke 22:38. Just quoting a small portion: This is an example where cherry picking a verse (i.e. quote mining) creates a problem. Jesus clearly discusses in prior verses people out without money or shoes and showing them that even in such circumstances that they lacked for nothing. It is pretty clear that he was addressing people who were complaining when they had far more than the nothing that sufficed before. Jesus told them to take the two swords because they were whining and not because he thought it was the best policy. Of course shortly thereafter Peter or some other disciple draws his sword in defense of Jesus and cuts of the ear of the high priest's slave. Jesus tells him to sheath his sword and heals the man's ear. Overall lesson? Bear arms? I don't think so. Rather it is clearly a concession to the weakness of the disciples who quite often just seemed not to get Jesus during the time of his life on earth. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
ABE: By the way, where's the "cherry picking" when the entire chapter, all the thirty five verses before this subject comes up, have nothing to do with this subject and say nothing that would give the context for it you are insisting on. That turns out not to be true. Verse 35 provides context for the statement you cite.
ABE: Also, this doesn't sound figurative: "if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. I did not say that it was figurative. I recommend a literal, in context reading versus a quote mining. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Well, I don't see it at all. Okay. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
The tool needed in this case was training in deescalation and dealing with mentally ill patients. Exactly, and while there may not be enough trained policemen to go around, the idea that the particular policemen working at the a place of treatment for the mentally ill were so poorly prepared is horrifying [1]. I bet that the regular staff at the hospital could have handled this guy, but look what happens when you call the police first. [1] Or inexcusable, unforgivable, inexplicable, etc. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
You go into any dangerous situation unarmed except for prayer and the gospel, fully aware that you may die but that your purpose is that others be saved. Perhaps certain things about what Jesus said do appear to contradict conventional wisdom and earthly logic. But do you really consider that to be a strong argument that Jesus did not actually mean those things? According to the text, Jesus sent people out in twos to strange towns without money, food, or arms and told them not to worry about it. As best as we know, John is the only one of the original disciples to escape a violent death. If your point is to say that those examples don't apply to you, maybe you are correct. But I think those examples are enough to show that this particular argument you are advancing is total nonsense.
he question of danger from governments, which is a major argument for the Second Amendment, may not be quite the same thing, I need to think that through better. Yes, this is advanced as a major argument. I am sure it is one that Bundy and his crew would heartily endorse. But its not an argument that is recognized legally as a legitimate aim of the second amendment. Historically, I don't recognize any armed attempts to oppose the US government with arms as legitimate. Those instances have invariably been despicable. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I think there are different sides to this question about there ever being any justification for self-defense for a Christian Perhaps there are different sides. My point is that your chosen reference is not reasonably interpreted to back up the idea that Christians ought to be armed. In fact, I see Jesus saying the exact opposite of that. What you are citing as an interpretation that could be read that way is no more a recommendation that is Jesus 'recommendation' about divorce when he acknowledged that Moses had allowed it. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Yes, but all that flies in the face of how Luke 22 is actually written. Really? How about that breast plate of truth? Is that real armor? How about those feet fittings made from the gospel, or that belt of truth? Helmet of salvation? Sword of the spirit? "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood", seems like literal, real, weapons to you being used in defense against earthly enemies? Just what words would have to go into the text before you recognized a metaphor or two? Is there any serious doubt that the text is talking about spiritual warfare? Nope.
quote: How are you seeing all of the text and yet insisting on literal swords? What part of "how Luke was written" suggests any such thing. The alternative is that the verses means Jesus is sending Christians out on something like a crusade. Surely, not. If you are supposed to be armed with real swords it is not because of this text. Isn't the best example of a disciple being armed the incident when Peter or another disciple cut off the slave's ear? Are there any other examples at all? Did Jesus carry a sword? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
'm not arguing about Luke 22, I've concluded that it's ambiguous, despite your opinion to the contrary There is no ambiguity about Luke 22. I agree that it does not answer the question about whether you can carry real weapons, but the text certainly does not talk about carrying real weapons at all? Besides that, I never cited Luke 22 before the previous message. I instead cited other portions which are closer to being on point, but which arguably do not eliminate the possibility that carrying weapons is ok. My objection is to claims that such verses actually recommend carrying weapons. None of them do. I gave you a thumbs up for recognizing that you need to think of it more. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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