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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
ringo
Member
Posts: 16681
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 3751 of 5179 (765543)
07-31-2015 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 3748 by Percy
07-24-2015 6:23 PM


Re: BBC World News
Percy writes:

Europe just doesn't have a mass volume of mass shootings.


"Dog bites man" isn't news. Why do they even bother to report mass shootings in the US?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 3748 by Percy, posted 07-24-2015 6:23 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 3752 of 5179 (765544)
07-31-2015 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 3750 by Percy
07-31-2015 11:59 AM


Re: "Stay out of the South"
This scenario almost never happens. The logic is nonsense, the odds of a perfectly timed counter-killer getting the drop on the evil killer unlikely. And even when such a situation does happen, as in the Tucson shooting of 2011, the armed citizen who jumps into the melee can pose a mortal threat to others. In Tucson, an innocent person came within seconds of getting shot by an armed bystander who wasnt sure whom to shoot.

A melee/shootout in a darkened movie theater is a horrifying thought to most people. Apparently not to presidential candidate Perry.

If the mall took up Rick Perrys suggestion, shoppers could roam among the chain stores packing heat, ready for a shootout

On the other hand, the suggestion of armed citizens packing in a mall is standard gun nut fantasy. The idea is only scary to those already persuaded that there are too many guns.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3750 by Percy, posted 07-31-2015 11:59 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 3753 by Coragyps, posted 07-31-2015 4:51 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5393
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 3753 of 5179 (765547)
07-31-2015 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 3752 by NoNukes
07-31-2015 1:00 PM


Re: "Stay out of the South"
If the mall took up Rick Perrys suggestion

One more month, and "open carry" is legal here in Texas.

In our last safety meeting they were talking about "dangerous states," but I'm pretty sure they meant states of mind, not geopolitical entities.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3752 by NoNukes, posted 07-31-2015 1:00 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 3754 by ramoss, posted 08-01-2015 11:14 AM Coragyps has not yet responded

  
ramoss
Member
Posts: 3110
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 3754 of 5179 (765569)
08-01-2015 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 3753 by Coragyps
07-31-2015 4:51 PM


Re: "Stay out of the South"
I wonder how many guns will be stolen right off the side of an open carry gun carrier.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 3753 by Coragyps, posted 07-31-2015 4:51 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3755 by jar, posted 08-01-2015 11:18 AM ramoss has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 30997
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 3755 of 5179 (765571)
08-01-2015 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 3754 by ramoss
08-01-2015 11:14 AM


Re: "Stay out of the South"
Probably not too many. How many police have their gun stolen right off their side?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3754 by ramoss, posted 08-01-2015 11:14 AM ramoss has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3756 by kjsimons, posted 08-01-2015 11:51 AM jar has responded

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 667
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 3756 of 5179 (765575)
08-01-2015 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 3755 by jar
08-01-2015 11:18 AM


Re: "Stay out of the South"
Well according to this site, 57 officers have been fatally shot by an unarmed suspect that took their guns since 2000. This FBI site table lists 46 officers killed by their own gun from 2002-2011. I'm haven't yet found the statistic about just having their guns taken or grabbed.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 3755 by jar, posted 08-01-2015 11:18 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3757 by jar, posted 08-01-2015 12:08 PM kjsimons has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 30997
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 3757 of 5179 (765578)
08-01-2015 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 3756 by kjsimons
08-01-2015 11:51 AM


Re: "Stay out of the South"
So as suspected, simply not something to worry about.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3756 by kjsimons, posted 08-01-2015 11:51 AM kjsimons has not yet responded

saab93f
Member (Idle past 885 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


(1)
Message 3758 of 5179 (765611)
08-02-2015 5:40 AM


This whole gun-conversation is so odd that my head hurts. While I do (at least pretend to) understand the historical background of the right to own weapons, justifications for it beyond the 19th century are beyond my understanding.

We all have a want and need to carry our everyday affairs in reasonable safety and predictiveness. We parents send our children to school knowing that they'll come home in the afternoon. How on earth does adults armed to their teeth support that?

IMO handguns are 100% unnecessary. There is absolutely nothing good in them and they serve no positive purpose. I just cannot comprehend the love for guns or the arguments of the likes of NRA etc. It is beyond hope to wish that handguns were eliminated but why is it even impossible to discuss the possibilities of not arming psychos...?


Replies to this message:
 Message 3759 by jar, posted 08-02-2015 8:35 AM saab93f has responded

jar
Member
Posts: 30997
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 3759 of 5179 (765612)
08-02-2015 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 3758 by saab93f
08-02-2015 5:40 AM


It is beyond hope to wish that handguns were eliminated but why is it even impossible to discuss the possibilities of not arming psychos...?

Where is it impossible to discuss the possibilities of not arming psychos? In fact there are already laws on the books in most countries including the US making it illegal to sell a gun to a psycho.

But bad folk do not obey laws.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3758 by saab93f, posted 08-02-2015 5:40 AM saab93f has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3760 by saab93f, posted 08-02-2015 8:49 AM jar has responded

saab93f
Member (Idle past 885 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 3760 of 5179 (765614)
08-02-2015 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 3759 by jar
08-02-2015 8:35 AM


Hi jar.

What I meant that in the US basically every restriction is met with the 2nd Amendment. Background checks were seen as unconstitutional as well as waiting periods.

Sorry if I'm oversimplifying but to me it seems that you love guns more than people. Why is it almost a necessity for a person to acquire a handgun? Using the bad people -defense seems almost naive - there hasn't been many cases where "a good armed guy" has been able to stop the attacker but plenty where the good guy has accidentally killed people.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3759 by jar, posted 08-02-2015 8:35 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3761 by jar, posted 08-02-2015 9:05 AM saab93f has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 30997
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 3761 of 5179 (765615)
08-02-2015 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 3760 by saab93f
08-02-2015 8:49 AM


What I meant that in the US basically every restriction is met with the 2nd Amendment. Background checks were seen as unconstitutional as well as waiting periods.

Many things are seen as unconstitutional and it is right to test the issue when there are doubts. But both waiting periods and background checks were found to not be unconstitutional.

But there is an issue in the US.

We have no way to check many of the things needed to be checked. There is no such thing in the US as a registry of citizens. There is no way to check to see if someone is a psycho or potential psycho. There is no database of who has been treated for mental illness or even been hospitalized for mental illness.

Why is it almost a necessity for a person to acquire a handgun?

It isn't and in fact most Americans don't own a handgun. I try to make up for that though by owning more than one handgun.

Using the bad people -defense seems almost naive - there hasn't been many cases where "a good armed guy" has been able to stop the attacker but plenty where the good guy has accidentally killed people.

Even if that were true it is irrelevant to anything. The fact is that bad people do not obey laws and that includes the existing gun laws.

There are serious problems in the US, one of the biggest is a seemingly innate disregard for the laws whether it is speeding or jaywalking or littering or resorting to violence.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3760 by saab93f, posted 08-02-2015 8:49 AM saab93f has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3762 by Percy, posted 08-02-2015 9:29 AM jar has responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 18498
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 3762 of 5179 (765616)
08-02-2015 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 3761 by jar
08-02-2015 9:05 AM


People are people the world over. There is nothing that makes one set of people in one region any more or less likely to obey laws than any other region. The variable is circumstances, and the one most significant circumstance that exists in the US (firearm homicide rate 3.55 per 100,000) that doesn't exist in other western style countries like Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. (firearm homicide rate much less, maybe an average around 0.5 per 100,000) is the easy availability of guns.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3761 by jar, posted 08-02-2015 9:05 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3763 by jar, posted 08-02-2015 9:52 AM Percy has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30997
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 3763 of 5179 (765618)
08-02-2015 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 3762 by Percy
08-02-2015 9:29 AM


Yawn.

But again, what relevance does that have to anything?

Why are gun deaths an issue when they are so small compared to other deaths like traffic deaths?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3762 by Percy, posted 08-02-2015 9:29 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3764 by Percy, posted 08-02-2015 12:00 PM jar has responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 18498
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 3764 of 5179 (765620)
08-02-2015 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 3763 by jar
08-02-2015 9:52 AM


jar writes:

Why are gun deaths an issue when they are so small compared to other deaths like traffic deaths?

That you're not disputing that the widespread prevalence of guns is responsible for the higher rate of gun deaths is small comfort, but anyway, there were 8855 firearm related homicides in 2012 in the US. How many needless deaths is too small to be a concern?

And so many are children. This CDC Study reports that the death rate for children in the US is far higher than for other industrialized nations:

quote:
The homicide rate for children in the United States was five times higher than that for children in the other 25 countries combined (2.57 per 100,000 compared with 0.51)

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3763 by jar, posted 08-02-2015 9:52 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3765 by jar, posted 08-02-2015 12:43 PM Percy has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30997
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 3765 of 5179 (765622)
08-02-2015 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 3764 by Percy
08-02-2015 12:00 PM


That you're not disputing that the widespread prevalence of guns is responsible for the higher rate of gun deaths is small comfort, but anyway, there were 8855 firearm related homicides in 2012 in the US. How many needless deaths is too small to be a concern?

Well, not sure they were all needless deaths but that too is irrelevant. Not one gun killed anyone, it was people not the guns.

And again, the issue with children is not the guns but education.

Sorry Percy but I am far more concerned about bigger issues, ones we are NOT addressing.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3764 by Percy, posted 08-02-2015 12:00 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3766 by Percy, posted 08-02-2015 1:29 PM jar has responded

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