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Author | Topic: Gun Control Again | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
None of it pertinant. Give us real world evidence that prayers always work, as was your claim. Why are you distorting what I said? I said conditions have to be met and that the prayers you can always expect to be answered are those in God's will. I also said that although few here would want to see these particular prayers answered, the most dramatic answers to prayer I can think of are those for Christian revival such as those I linked to. Christian revival on a great scale WOULD affect the gun violence in the nation and a great many other things besides.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Your distortion was to say I said prayer always works. I did not. I said, as you now quote, praying IN GOD'S WILL always works.
If enough of us consistently prayed against the gun violence that would cut down on a lot of it, but the gun violence is likely to be part of God's judgment on the nation, part of the deterioration of the culture I mentioned, and turning back God's judgments means coming back into His will, a general culture-wide turning back to obedience to His law. That's what revivals bring about. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You ARE my enemies. I couldn't pray for my enemies if you weren't my enemies could I?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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You do make it hard to love you, but I'm not giving up.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Let's destroy the Second Amendment because another person went berserk.
The sad fact is that Americans do not seem to be able to be trusted not to go on killing sprees. Why would you want guns in the hands of a nation that go on regular killing sprees? Well, let's get this into perspective if we can. These mass killings are recent, began in the 90s with Columbine. They may be related to the psychotropic drugs I posted on, which are also a fairly recent phenomenon, at the level they are prescribed now anyway. But at least it's all related to the great cultural sea change, brought about, dare I say it, by the forces of liberalism over the last half century. The death of Christian morality is a biggie for instance. And yes, I also suspect there could be .a more direct conspiracy of some sort that affects unstable people with guns. They usually kill themselves so finding out about any such influences is hampered even if someone was alerted to look for them. Bringing down the Second Amendment has got to be high on the list of the projects of any enemy who wants to completely undermine America's ability to defend ourselves. I could name plenty of other such projects that are working only too well in that respect, the Second Amendment may be the last bulwark we've got. And excuse me, but the UK and Europe are not exactly models of security against invaders either. You may seem to be doing just fine having crippled your citizenry by taking away their guns, but wait until America's Second Amendment falls and then see how safe you are. ABE: This thread is a perfect example of how well propaganda works. Get a negative line going against America, make it sound sophisticated and reasonable, make disarmed nations look perfectly safe, which they only are as long as we're armed, be sure to vilify Protestants too because the Reformation was the foundation of the prosperity and strength of America, and went a long way in that direction for you guys too, but you actually think you're safer without all that, having no idea where your protection comes from ultimately. You've got Muslims increasing their population in your midst, SO seemingly benign, while you ignore the teachings of Islam that growing their population within enemy nations is one of their strategies for taking the world for Allah. Well, it is probably too late but I guess I can keep on saying it anyway. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
So you want to ban everyone with mental health issues from owning guns? The ammosexuals won't allow basic background checks, how are they going to go along with this. This is all just a red herring. It's the DRUGS that are the cause of the violence, not the mental illness. And I don't know how to use this information since I got talked out of one idea I had. But I would think it would be of interest to know, whether we have a solution or not, if these drugs are associated with all these killings. But I also keep mentioning the demoralization of the country as a cause and I think it is. Abortion devalues life and some people take that personally: my mom could have aborted me, she'd never have known after all. Divorce usually takes fathers away from the family which can create a lot of insecurity for children, especially boys; also forces mothers to work so two parents are often away. Same effect with the single-parent situation often caused by irresponsible sex. No, not ALL such situations have negative consequences, but surely enough do to contribute to the mental health issues in the nation. The general devaluation of marriage is a recipe for chaos and insecurity in itself. And excuse me but homosexual marriage is basically a mockery which any prepubescent child can figure out even if they conform to the politically correct talking points, which has to create a schizoid mentality to some extent.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It isn't always easy to love you either but we (some of us) do - and we don't even have a god telling us to. Should be even easier once I get used to this love thing. You should be glad Jesus is telling me to love you all because it isn't in me to love people who have such radically (obnoxiously) different opinions from mine, and one thing I've discovered here is what a temper I have. Tired of having it get the better of me, but I think Jesus finally got hold of me this time. I'll never love your opinions but if Jesus loves you through me it should make us all a bit happier.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Probably in a different way.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
One mass killing in 1966 and one in 1913 is hardly a fair comparison to the spate of such killings since the 90s.
That's not what you said. You said, "These mass killings are recent, began in the 90s with Columbine," but it's easy to find mass killings before the 90's. I just happened to mention only two. I really can't fathom why you wouldn't know I wasn't saying there had never been any mass killings before the 90s. What we've been seeing since then is an increase to the point that it's every couple of years or so and we're almost getting to take it for granted. It's the numbers and the frequency that we're all aware of that anybody is talking about, not just the occasional berserkery years apart.
Mass killings have increased with the increasing prevalence of guns, and the increased ease of their acquisition. Makes a nice simple refrain I guess.
You say there has been no death of Christian morality. I'm talking of course about BIBLICAL Christian morality.
What you say is never what you're talking about, is it. It always is only I realize belatedly that you don't have the same definitions I have. And I would think you would know this too.
Anyway, if there's been any death of BIBLICAL Christian morality then it's been much greater in Europe, so why don't they have more mass killings? I wouldn't expect the exact same consequences from culture to culture myself. I gave two sources, not just Ammoland. Do you actually think they made up the drugs each of the killers was on, and made up the warning labels on the various drugs too? Ad hominems at EvC reach new heights of absurdity. We aren't going to eliminate the guns so it would be a good idea to think in terms of other ways to prevent the problem. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Utter nonsense. I've known a lot of gun owners and there isn't a shred of resemblance between them and that Hollywood-invented portrait of them. I would think if anyone really wanted to influence them to help deal with the problems of mass killings and other gun violence, including accidents due to irresponsibility, it would help to treat them as intelligent responsible human beings which the vast majority are. As long as this liberal smear campaign continues don't expect much help.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Most of the people I know who own guns come from families where gun ownership goes back generations. A couple are avid hunters and teach their children to hunt, one is a WWII vet (pushing 90) who owns a couple of guns from that time and keeps them in shape and well hidden, and in my family guns go back to the mid-19th century in wild country where they homesteaded and guns were essential. It was part of life and got passed on as part of life to the children who passed it on to their children. Mostly all they do with them is go out into the desert for target practice, but they still consider the guns a necessity even if times have changed.
It is not part of any "gun culture," it's not some kind of fetish, it's just considered common sense to own a gun and the Second Amendment agrees with them. There has never been a gun accident among any of the people I know who own guns, they are extremely safety-conscious about their guns. And if it weren't for the big media flap made over incidents that they consider to be alien remote and unrelated to any of their own experience, they wouldn't give it a second thought. To them it IS some kind of attack on their rights and freedoms, and might as well be a conspiracy against them. The fact that there is such a push to deprive them of this ordinary right does suggest that some enemy is trying to disarm them and the country. If it were just about regulations to keep the guns out of the hands of potential murderers and irresponsible people the focus would be there instead of on getting rid of guns period, but notice the rhetoric: it's always about guns per se, it's always about some supposed crazy gun culture, it is always full of negative characterizations of America as a whole, it confuses statistics from high crime areas with the majority of gun owners elsewhere, it's a totally irresponsible approach to the problems they say they want to deal with. It only puts the good guys on the defensive. And rightly so. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
There is no push to eliminate responsible gun ownership: could you point to some organized effort to do so? I'm responding to the GET RID OF GUNS, PERIOD rhetoric on this very thread, along with the AMERICA IS FULL OF CRAZY PEOPLE rhetoric on this very thread, along with the GUN PEOPLE ARE PART OF A GUN CULTURE OF FANATICS AND FETISHISTS on this very thread. That's what prompted my post. But I'm also not going to say the people I described are NOT "gun nuts" as Percy describes gun nuts, because if you push them you'll find out that they too consider their guns to be necessary to their own personal safety, which seems to be the definition of a gun nut. But when this rhetoric I'm talking about gets flying it threatens the good gun owners too. The WWII vet is actually a liberal who would rather not give up his guns but would if the government required it. In other words although he may be a "collector" according to Percy's definition which is supposedly a safe category, he would expect to have to relinquish his guns. Where is he getting that idea if not from the liberal rhetoric, despite the assurances here that some categories are not going to be threatened? But also, he does consider his guns to be for personal security, so that makes him too a "gun nut" right? Even though as a liberal he'd feel obliged to give them up. ALL the good people feel threatened by the liberal rhetoric. Why is that if it's not meant to threaten them? Why not reassure them instead and emphasize that all you want is cooperation toward eliminating the mass killings and the other problems with guns? Why threaten the Second Amendment? Why talk about it as if it's got to go, it's an antiquated idea that no longer applies in a modern advanced society? Why keep saying guns are the problem, guns are the problem, if you really mean that guns aren't a problem in some circumstances but only in others? It's true I'm not paying that much attention to incendiary rhetoric on the pro-gun side, but the prevailing liberal rhetoric IS a major impediment if what you really want is reasonable solutions to identifiable problems and not just the elimination of all guns. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Sorry about the capitals. They aren't necessarily heat though. I should have used italics but they require *code* and three pairs of code is sometimes too much. I guess I could go for asterisks. I'll try to keep that in mind.
Even though those capitalized opinions aren't yours, couldn't you please just acknowledge that they reflect the main tone of this thread and that it IS *liberal* and that my responding to it isn't just some off-the-wall reaction to some phantom liberal thing. You are right that I don't follow the conservative media much. And I can guarantee you that my WWII vet friend does not have a clue about what the conservative media are saying. His sources are all liberal. So if he thinks he might have to give up his guns he isn't getting the idea from Breitbart or Limbaugh. Now I'm too tired to answer the rest of your post. Later. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Since I don't blame guns for the killings, I regard the accusation that gun owners don't care about children or people who get murdered as propaganda against the security of America.
I'm not for MORE guns, saab, though I AM for having fewer or no gun-free zones. I would like to see reasonable ways of preventing guns from getting into the hands of mentally unstable people. People in foreign countries don't understand America's history of guns or the second amendment. I refer you to my Message 57 for a refresher. Finland is probably under no threat from enemies, just as the rest of Europe isn't right now (at least not from external armies I hasten to add). But disarm American citizens and then see what happens. I know people ridicule the idea of gun-totin' citizens facing down a massive army with sophisticated weaponry, but that isn't the view from the right: the view is that the massive army isn't going to show up as long as the citizens are armed. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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