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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1630 of 5179 (690028)
02-07-2013 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1618 by Percy
02-06-2013 5:33 PM


another bit of information
Upworthy - 404 Not Found
quote:
It’s One Of The Craziest Internet Rumors About Guns. And As It Turns Out, It’s True.
It’s a fact so jaw-dropping it’s unbelievable people thought it was a crazy Internet rumor until Politifact verified it. But it’s true: More Americans have died just since 1960 from gun incidents suicides, accidents, and homicides than died in every war in U.S. history. The deadliest war the U.S. has ever had is the war we waged against ourselves.

Enjoy?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 2342 of 5179 (719789)
02-18-2014 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 2340 by New Cat's Eye
02-18-2014 9:53 AM


why federal laws and what they could say
... How about weed. A guy can drive over to Colorado, buy some weed, and then bring it back to his state where its still illegal.
Of course, while the analogy works, it doesn't support your position.
My position is that we do not need to sound the alarms and get the Feds involved, but instead should leave this up to the States.
Do you think we should have the Feds crack down on Colorado to protect all those people in the neighboring states from having weed illegally brought in?
But your example is better used to support some federal involvement to ensure that either laws are similar in all the states or that crossing state borders increases the legal penalties (which they do have the right to do).
Personally I see no reason why the feds should not
(a) require registered ownership of guns or have some means to track guns used in crimes back to the owner
(b) require background checks for all gun ownership transferals
(c) require ammunition and raw gun powder to have "marker micro-confetti" that can be tracked back to who purchased it and where.
There would be no impact on self-defense usage, or recreational usage.

we are limited in our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 2340 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 9:53 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2343 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 10:16 AM RAZD has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 2353 of 5179 (719823)
02-18-2014 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 2343 by New Cat's Eye
02-18-2014 10:16 AM


Re: why federal laws and what they could say
In light of the heinous actions of the NSA, I'm not going to trust the Feds with something that purposefully provides them with more information about my guns.
... so you would be okay with ammo\powder having micro-confetti to track sources and buyers, but don't want to register your guns because of some kind of NRA paranoia, and you think they don't have all the information they need already?
So you're part of the problem?

we are limited in our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 2343 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 10:16 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2355 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 1:57 PM RAZD has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 2356 of 5179 (719831)
02-18-2014 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 2354 by New Cat's Eye
02-18-2014 1:55 PM


Prediction
Is that you admitting that their ultimate goal is not saving kids lives in schools?
Prediction: within 2 years a gun in a school ostensibly to prevent or reduce school shootings ... will be used in a school shooting or accidental death.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 2354 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 1:55 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2357 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 3:12 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 2367 by Omnivorous, posted 02-18-2014 5:20 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 2371 by 1.61803, posted 02-18-2014 5:49 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 2358 of 5179 (719834)
02-18-2014 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 2355 by New Cat's Eye
02-18-2014 1:57 PM


Re: why federal laws and what they could say
... so you would be okay with ammo\powder having micro-confetti to track sources and buyers,
I'm okay with it existing, but I wouldn't buy it or shoot it.
Why?
This is a simple way to track bullets used in crimes regardless of gun ownership or type of gun.
What harm does it pose to you for recreational use or for self defense use?
TASER shoots ID confetti leading to arrests in violin robbery
quote:
SCOTTSDALE, AZ (CBS5) -
Crime scene investigators spend a lot of time searching for clues, including shell casings, fingerprints and DNA.
It is often pain staking and time consuming work.
A group of suspected thieves in Wisconsin might as well have left their drivers licenses at the scene of the crime, because identifying information fired from a TASER led police right to their door.
A Stradivarius violin estimated to be worth five million dollars was stolen in a violent and planned out assault on the streets of Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
The violin player was shocked by a TASER while walking to his car following a concert and robbed of his precious instrument.
The TASER C2 puts out enough electricity to temporarily paralyze whomever is at the receiving end of it.
Each one of the TASER cartridges contains twenty-six small confetti like tags called AFIDs which are packed into the firing mechanism. When engaged, the AFIDs fly out of the TASER and scatter around the area where the device was utilized.
AFIDs stands for Anti Felon Identification System. The TASER International company has utilized them in their products since the beginning.
"What it is doing is preventing people from doing crimes," says TASER Vice President Steve Tuttle.
"It tells the owner, if you do, you're putting twenty to thirty of these out there," Tuttle says while holding up a business card.
Those 'business cards' were right there at the scene of the crime in Milwaukee just waiting for police to pick them up. It took a few days, but cops tracked down three people who have been arrested in connection with the theft.
"(TASER was) immediately contacted by Milwaukee Police and the FBI and we were given a number to trace," says Tuttle. "There's a ninety-eight percent chance that when you deploy this, good luck, because we're going to catch you."
Simple, no-brainer, everyone benefits.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 2355 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 1:57 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 2368 of 5179 (719850)
02-18-2014 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 2357 by New Cat's Eye
02-18-2014 3:12 PM


Re: Prediction
I'm not sure why you would smile at that...
More of a grimace, but certainly the irony would have a certain level of black humor. The law of unintended consequences will always produce some results counter to the intentions.
In those two years, apparently, more kids will die in bicycle accidents at school. If your ultimate goal was saving kids lives at schools, then your efforts would be better focused on bicycle safety.
Curiously I can be focused on bicycle safety at the same time -- not just for kids but for all cyclists, which is increasing as more people move away from fossil fuels.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 2357 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 3:12 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2370 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 5:26 PM RAZD has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 2374 of 5179 (719859)
02-18-2014 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 2367 by Omnivorous
02-18-2014 5:20 PM


Re: Prediction
Sooner.
Yes, but a pretty sure thing in two.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
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to share.


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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 2376 of 5179 (719863)
02-18-2014 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 2370 by New Cat's Eye
02-18-2014 5:26 PM


Background checks work
After background checks were scrapped in Missouri
quote:
The Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health took a closer look at the impact on public safety in the state after the policy change, and the Washington Post’s Niraj Chokshi helped summarize the results.
The law’s repeal was correlated with a 23 percent spike in firearm homicide rates, or an additional 55 to 63 murders annually from 2008 to 2012, according to the study conducted by researchers with the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research and to be published in the Journal of Urban Health.
This study provides compelling confirmation that weaknesses in firearm laws lead to deaths from gun violence, Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research and the study’s lead author, said in a news release. There is strong evidence to support the idea that the repeal of Missouri’s handgun purchaser licensing law contributed to dozens of additional murders in Missouri each year since the law was changed.
For context, note that there was no comparable increase at the national level — in other words, it’s not like Missouri saw a spike because everyone nationwide was seeing a spike — and more to the point, the eight states that border Missouri also did not experience a similar increase.
Background checks work.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2370 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 5:26 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2379 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 10:15 PM RAZD has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 2380 of 5179 (719871)
02-18-2014 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 2379 by New Cat's Eye
02-18-2014 10:15 PM


Re: Background checks work
background checks cannot affect legitimate use, but it can affect illegitimate use.
And if the end result is fewer gun deaths, then it is a positive result.
No brainer.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 2379 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 10:15 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 2382 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 11:22 PM RAZD has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 2385 of 5179 (719908)
02-19-2014 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 2382 by New Cat's Eye
02-18-2014 11:22 PM


Re: Background checks work
Whoa, wait. If people are obtaining guns illegally, like they borrow it from their cousin, then how can background checks affect that?
If you give a cousin a gun because they cannot pass a background check then you are at fault, you are aiding and abetting.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 2382 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 11:22 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2389 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-19-2014 10:39 AM RAZD has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 2405 of 5179 (719953)
02-19-2014 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 2389 by New Cat's Eye
02-19-2014 10:39 AM


Re: Background checks work
Whoa, wait. If people are obtaining guns illegally, like they borrow it from their cousin, then how can background checks affect that?
If you give a cousin a gun because they cannot pass a background check then you are at fault, you are aiding and abetting.
And that would be an illegitimate use, so how do you square that with this:
quote:
background checks cannot affect legitimate use, but it can affect illegitimate use.
Because the onus is on the registered gun owner to ensure that the gun is used properly. You are responsible as the registered owner, so you better be careful who you lend then out to and what it is used for.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 2389 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-19-2014 10:39 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(8)
Message 2411 of 5179 (719977)
02-19-2014 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 2400 by Phat
02-19-2014 11:53 AM


which coup do you mean?
Disarming the citizens would make it easier for a coup to take place, right?
You mean like the one going on now as billionaires buy up congress and get laws passed to get them even more entrenched in controlling the state and federal governments ... all while they keep you distracted about dems "wanting to take your guns" and "national security" and reducing citizen rights (patriot act, citizen's united, ALEC laws, etc) -- that one?
Or do you mean the fake fantasy one they keep warning you about ... ?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 2400 by Phat, posted 02-19-2014 11:53 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(5)
Message 2425 of 5179 (720612)
02-25-2014 11:13 AM


And the Darwin Award goes to ...
Man shoots himself in the head while demonstrating gun safety
quote:
The victim’s live-in girlfriend told deputies that her 36-year-old boyfriend had been demonstrating the safety of his three handguns by holding them to his head and pulling the trigger.
The third gun fired and he was struck in the head.
The victim was pronounced dead at the scene. His name was not immediately released.
Three children were also in the house at the time of the shooting, but sheriff’s officials say none of them were injured or witnessed the shooting. Authorities said the kids were not the victims’ biological children.
Darwin Award anyone?

we are limited in our ability to understand
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Rebel American Zen Deist
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Replies to this message:
 Message 2426 by 1.61803, posted 02-25-2014 11:35 AM RAZD has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 2427 of 5179 (720618)
02-25-2014 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 2426 by 1.61803
02-25-2014 11:35 AM


Re: And the Darwin Award goes to ...
ya there is a bullet in the chamber, so removing the clip does not make it safe...

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 2426 by 1.61803, posted 02-25-2014 11:35 AM 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 2429 of 5179 (725667)
04-30-2014 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 2428 by Dr Adequate
04-29-2014 8:29 PM


Re: Responsible Gun Owner News
belongs on Loony Of The Week thread ...
Is "leveling the life of someone" a new euphemism for assassination?
Sounds like terrorism to me. Homegrown.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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